Not delivered because the return address was refused

DigiDragon · 06-06-2005, 21:51

I have had an email address with totalise for years, and have used it fine with ntl up until a few days ago. Now, whenever I try to send an email using my totalise email address to another totalise address, it bounces.

"Your message was not delivered because the return address was refused."

"The return address was <my.address@totalise.co.uk>"

It was sent using the ntlworld smtp server, yet it also says:

"81.103.221.48 is not allowed to send mail from totalise.co.uk"

The IP, 81.103.221.48, is ntl's, so just how am I sending mail from totalise? I'm using smtp.ntlworld.com, but specifying my totalise address as my return email address, as I've done for the past couple of years.

Is this some kind of spam measure? Can someone explain please...?

Paul K · 06-06-2005, 21:57

Think it's a spam measure due to your return address. Since it's different to the information used to send it the servers are probably marking it as spam and refusing to allow it through.
It could also be that the mail server has been blacklisted again for spam lol

DigiDragon · 06-06-2005, 22:15

The email was bounced by ntl - "Please reply to <Postmaster@ispmail.ntl.com>" - so are you saying that maybe ntl's mail server will not deliver email sent by an ntl customer who's using a totalise return address, because they've had a spam problem with totalise addresses...?

Paul K · 06-06-2005, 22:32

It's just one way they try to spot spam, your sending an email through NTL's server with a return address of a different email server. This probably triggered a spam filter and got it bounced back to you. Unfotunately they are tightening spam control etc these days and it is affecting some email traffic. Also some of NTLs email servers have been blacklisted by other providers because of spam being spent from NTL addresses.

DigiDragon · 06-06-2005, 22:46

It only seems to be emails to totalise addresses that bounce. I can send emails to other addresses using my totalise address as a return address.

simbr · 07-06-2005, 12:07

I expect that the totalise servers are rejecting mail that claim to be from a totalise address but don't originate from a totalise mail server. Actually a pretty sensible spam precaution.

greencreeper · 07-06-2005, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by simbr

I expect that the totalise servers are rejecting mail that claim to be from a totalise address but don't originate from a totalise mail server. Actually a pretty sensible spam precaution.

Agree - the originating mail server IP is NTL but the address is totalise. It would flag up as a spam trait.

DigiDragon · 07-06-2005, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Agree - the originating mail server IP is NTL but the address is totalise. It would flag up as a spam trait.

So are you saying that totalise itself is rejecting it? Not ntl? Like I said, it's been fine for a couple of years and has only just started happening...

Paul K · 07-06-2005, 16:24

A lot of ISPs are trying to tighten the controls and filters for Spam these days, some times the filters create more trouble than they solve though.

greencreeper · 07-06-2005, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiDragon

So are you saying that totalise itself is rejecting it? Not ntl? Like I said, it's been fine for a couple of years and has only just started happening...

It looks that way, yes. I know I can send emails from @ppfm.net using NTL's SMTP server, without problems. The phrase that you quote "81.103.221.48 is not allowed to send mail from totalise.co.uk" suggests that totalise's server is rejecting the email because it's not originating from one of its servers but appears to have (due to the reply-to address). Going a bit too far IMHO.

Totalise server...

Cooo - another email. Sez it's from one of our lot but nope - not our server address is that. Nasty wasty spammers - send it back.

Which is a bit of an assumption really given that many, many non-spammers send email via another ISPs SMTP server.

DigiDragon · 07-06-2005, 20:34

Thanks for the explanation.

Is there any point in complaining to totalise about it? Are they likely to turn down their spam filter...?

greencreeper · 07-06-2005, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiDragon

Thanks for the explanation.

Is there any point in complaining to totalise about it? Are they likely to turn down their spam filter...?

Probably not - one man taking on a company is the terrority of Channel 4 documentaries

Security is always a balance between security and functionality - the most secure PC has no floppy drive and no Internet connection. Not much use though. At the moment, there's a lot of hype and fear surrounding security, most of it whipped up by the press and those with an interest in selling security products. Many people, and many companies, are making knee-jerk, reactionary decisions. Just make the best of it. I'm waiting for NTL to introduce spam filtering - the ensuing chaos will be interesting.

simbr · 08-06-2005, 07:28

And besides.. Totalise will just tell you to dial into them to use their mail servers.

andygrif · 08-06-2005, 11:36

This is all probably related the issue I had last week, where ntl's email servers' IP ranges were blacklisted by MAPS and SpamCop. Totalise probably check the originating IPs against the blacklist and reject accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

I'm waiting for NTL to introduce spam filtering - the ensuing chaos will be interesting.

Agree, ntl's outgoing mail is already borked, so I look forward to all the incoming receiving a similar treatment!

Interestingly, up until recently whenever I have submitted an email to SpamCop for processing ntl have got a copy automatically (SpamCop stating that they are an 'intermediary interesting in the handling of spam') so one presumes that they have been teaching their spam filter though ntl's customers that use SpamCop.

simbr · 08-06-2005, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by andygrif

This is all probably related the issue I had last week, where ntl's email servers' IP ranges were blacklisted by MAPS and SpamCop. Totalise probably check the originating IPs against the blacklist and reject accordingly.

The MAPS issue was resolved the same say it occured. As already expounded above, Totalise now appear to be bouncing external mail with a totalise address. Among other things this will prevent the recent upsurge of bagle-type viruses that come from a spoofed ISP support address so I believe it's actually a pretty good idea.