Linux users help me: I'm tempted to the Dark Side

[danielf]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

Well, with FC3 all I had to do was plug my scanner (HP) and it worked

I would like to reiterate my point about horses for courses at this point, there's no absolute 'better' it's about a personal choice. E.g, you think it's better for an install to happen with a double click, I personally would rather type a command. Surely there is room for both methods?

Sure there is. But at the moment, my feeling is that Linux does not have much to offer (over Windows/Mac) for the large majority of users. If you prefer Linux, good for you, but I'll stick with windoze

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

Well, with FC3 all I had to do was plug my scanner (HP) and it worked

I would like to reiterate my point about horses for courses at this point, there's no absolute 'better' it's about a personal choice. E.g, you think it's better for an install to happen with a double click, I personally would rather type a command. Surely there is room for both methods?

A command? You ever tried installing NDISwrapper? slightly more than "A" command, personally I'd say it's much more practical to have a wireless NIC set up automatically.

[punky]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

Hmm, what version were you using? I tested Hoary Hedgehog 64bit (the most recent) and it had no problems with any of those things (except the wheel as I don't have one, and my wireless network as it is a daughterboard rather than a pci card).

I did have a Mandrake box which I wanted to use as a wireless print server. The wireless worked just peachy, but I could not, under any circumstances get linux to print to my printer (one of those free Dell rubbish). I had to ditch it for Windows.
__________________

Originally Posted by Bifta

A command? You ever tried installing NDISwrapper? slightly more than "A" command, personally I'd say it's much more practical to have a wireless NIC set up automatically.

If memory serves, it took about 3 commands, and it was explained well in the readme file.

If you don't want to mess about with that, Linuxant provides a guided GUI setup for installing wireless cards using their XP .sys files on linux, but you have to pay.

[Stuart]

I think certain posts in this thread illustrate the problem with Linux and Hardware.

With Windows (and to a lesser extent, Mac OS), you can plug any hardware in, and even if the OS can not automatically install drivers for you, it's often a just a case of bunging in a CD to get the hardware working.

It seems a little bit more complicated than that in Linux. Remember that to become a mainstream OS, Linux has to be simple to use. This includes installing hardware. To use an example based on the posts above, if Joe decides to buy a wireless network card, he or she won't want to be bothered running (& configuring) NDIS wrappers. He or she would want the OS to install it automatically.

Note, this isn't an attack on Linux, as I personally agree with phillipjfry, you should use what you are most comfortable with and what suits your needs.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by punky

I did have a Mandrake box which I wanted to use as a wireless print server. The wireless worked just peachy, but I could not, under any circumstances get linux to print to my printer (one of those free Dell rubbish). I had to ditch it for Windows.
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If memory serves, it took about 3 commands, and it was explained well in the readme file.

If you don't want to mess about with that, Linuxant provides a guided GUI setup for installing wireless cards using their XP .sys files on linux, but you have to pay.

Er no, slightly more than 3 commands, what planet are you on?

1) Download the windows driver from relevant site

2) wipe any previous attempts at installing ndiswrapper

sudo modprobe -r bcmwl5
sudo rmmod ndiswrapper
sudo apt-get remove ndiswrapper-utils
sudo rm -r /etc/ndiswrapper/
sudo rm -r /etc/modprobe.d/ndiswrapper

3) Copy the bcmwl5.inf and bcmwl5.sys files to your desktop

4) Open a terminal then: sudo apt-get install ndiswrapper-utils
sudo ndiswrapper -i ~/Desktop/bcmwl5.inf
sudo ndiswrapper -m
for conffile in /etc/ndiswrapper/bcmwl5/*.conf; do
sudo cat $conffile | sed -e 's/RadioState|1/RadioState|0/' > $conffile
done

Which is all well and good, but you'll need to have internet access to do this, so you'll need to run a cable to your wireless router

5) Reboot

6) In a terminal, sudo modprobe ndiswrapper

7) Wonder why it's still not working

8) Reinstall Windows XP 64 and notice how your wireless card was automatically installed without having to use a CD or download anything.

very similar to my experience

[punky]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Er no, slightly more than 3 commands, what planet are you on?

Downloading isn't counted as a command. It doesn't use the CLI for a start.

If you are installing it for the first time, then you won't need to remove the existing references.

Copying the files to desktop is hardly tough command to do. People could even use the GUI if they find it that difficult.

So that leaves section 4, which contains 4 whole commands. All they have to do is read off a text file and type what it says, it's not rocket science.

Which is all well and good, but you'll need to have internet access to do this, so you'll need to run a cable to your wireless router

Or they could download before connecting the router?

8) Reinstall Windows XP 64 and notice how your wireless card was automatically installed without having to use a CD or download anything.

Which is why every USB device for years always has a big sticker on it "installer drivers before connecting device".

Still, if manufacturers released linux drivers in the first place, it would be as easy on XP. The fact that a some random programmer has managed to create a device wrapper for XP system device files for Linux, is phenomenal. Plus it shows manufacturers hardly need to go to big lengths to produce native linux drivers, surely.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by punky

Downloading isn't counted as a command. It doesn't use the CLI for a start.

If you are installing it for the first time, then you won't need to remove the existing references.

Copying the files to desktop is hardly tough command to do. People could even use the GUI if they find it that difficult.

So that leaves section 4, which contains 4 whole commands. All they have to do is read off a text file and type what it says, it's not rocket science.



Or they could download before connecting the router?





Still, if manufacturers released linux drivers in the first place, it would be as easy on XP. The fact that a some random programmer has managed to create a device wrapper for XP system device files for Linux, is phenomenal. Plus it shows manufacturers hardly need to go to big lengths to produce native linux drivers, surely.

What point are you trying to get across? It seems that you're arguing for the sake of it unless for some obscure reason you really are living in la-la land and honestly believe that for the majority of the worlds inhabitants it is actually easier to install all manner of hardware under Linux.

My father bought a printer a few weeks ago, he phoned me as he's completely non-technical (like most of the population) and asked me how to install it, he'd already worked out where the USB and power cables went, I told him to put the CD in, it autoran, he clicked next a few times followed by finish and he was able to print.

Now picture the scene if for some reason he was sitting at a linux box

"O.k. open a terminal"
"A what?"

Which is why every USB device for years always has a big sticker on it "installer drivers before connecting device".

I'm sure there's a point to that but I'm struggling to find it.

[Plonking]

Have you tried linuxant ? I haven't got round to testing it yet, but have heard many good things about it. It allows you to use WLAN drivers in linux in much the same as NDISwrapper does. You get a 30-day trial before you have to buy it to see if it works, plus then it costs a whole £11 to buy, which is a small amount, when you consider that the OS was free.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Plonking

Have you tried linuxant ? I haven't got round to testing it yet, but have heard many good things about it. It allows you to use WLAN drivers in linux in much the same as NDISwrapper does. You get a 30-day trial before you have to buy it to see if it works, plus then it costs a whole £11 to buy, which is a small amount, when you consider that the OS was free.

Linuxant won't get my printer, scanner, joystick, pad, wheel and soundcard working

[punky]

Originally Posted by Bifta

What point are you trying to get across? It seems that you're arguing for the sake of it

Funny, I thought you started this. Oh well. The point I was trying to make was that you ridiculously exagerated the install. It is 4 commands. If someone is so incompetent at computers they can't read a file and type out 4 commands, there is Linuxant (although if you can get that far you should be able to type 4 commands). End of.

unless for some obscure reason you really are living in la-la land and honestly believe that for the majority of the worlds inhabitants it is actually easier to install all manner of hardware under Linux.

I never said that, I have made many posts saying how un-user-friendly linux is, but your post #20 was just silly.

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by Plonking

Have you tried linuxant ? I haven't got round to testing it yet, but have heard many good things about it. It allows you to use WLAN drivers in linux in much the same as NDISwrapper does. You get a 30-day trial before you have to buy it to see if it works, plus then it costs a whole £11 to buy, which is a small amount, when you consider that the OS was free.

Yep I own a License for this, shame ive sold my laptop so have no wireless hardware atm but meh, its great for the price and so easy to use

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by punky

Funny, I thought you started this. Oh well. The point I was trying to make was that you ridiculously exagerated the install. It is 4 commands. If someone is so incompetent at computers they can't read a file and type out 4 commands, there is Linuxant (although if you can get that far you should be able to type 4 commands). End of.

I never said that, I have made many posts saying how un-user-friendly linux is, but your post #20 was just silly.[/QUOTE]

Here, I'll tell you what, as you think it's so amazingly simple, please give me instructions for installing a Belkin F5D7000 (Broadcom chipset, supported under ndiswrapper) Wireless NIC on Ubuntu, I'd also need to specify a WEP key.

I await your oh so simple, guaranteed to work instructions, I'll then get my non-technical girlfriend to follow them, but that shouldn't be a problem, according to you all she has to do is type 4 commands, so, feel like a challenge or are you going to cop out?

[punky]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I never said that, I have made many posts saying how un-user-friendly linux is, but your post #20 was just silly.

Here, I'll tell you what, as you think it's so amazingly simple, please give me instructions for installing a Belkin F5D7000 (Broadcom chipset, supported under ndiswrapper) Wireless NIC on Ubuntu, I'd also need to specify a WEP key.

I await your oh so simple, guaranteed to work instructions, I'll then get my non-technical girlfriend to follow them, but that shouldn't be a problem, according to you all she has to do is type 4 commands, so, feel like a challenge or are you going to cop out?[/QUOTE]

Funny you should say that. I already have a Belkin F5D7050, and it installed fine for me. All I did was read the readme file and typed what it told me to type. No real magic, or independent thought to it.

I never said the instructions were guaranteed to work (noone can say that about anything, including XP). You didn't seem to read me the first time, i'll repeat. I didn't say Linux was easy (it isn't). You still only enter 4 commands wether you think that is easy or not.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by punky

</snip>

No, you don't only enter 4 commands. You're COMPLETELY missing the whole point yet again. 4 commands will not magically install Ndiswrapper and get your card working, and if you think it will, you need your head examining.