The Cable Forum Exit Poll

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Ah, it seems you *are* pedantically picking nits. By the way, it was Oona King who called the press to Les Dobrovolski's house to break the story about him being attacked by Respect supporters and them dropping a leaflet on him...

Oh and you may want to read the following article: http://www.thelondonline.co.uk/theli...p?articleID=53

"She says his supporters are running a racist campaign; he says she's running a corrupt campaign. She has eggs and rotten vegetables pelted at her at a Jewish memorial service; he says he's just successfully sued her for the second time. She says she wouldn't trust him to deliver a pizza; he says she's no more than a cog in a machine. Tariq Ali calls her a "warmonger", while Cherie Blair urges voters to "give Galloway a bloody nose"."



"TALK of administering †œa bloody noseââ‚ ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� to oneââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s political opponents is not the kind of language expected from the wife of the Prime Minister. But Cherie Blair has urged loyal Labour supporters to do just that to George Galloway, one of her husbandââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s fiercest critics over the war in Iraq.

"Mrs Blair appeared to lose her cool while addressing an audience of 100 party members at a £25-per-head fundraising reception for Oona King, defending Bethnal Green & Bow for Labour. "

[...]

"Labour is worried and Mrs Blair is just the latest big gun †â€ÂÂÂ� after Gordon Brown, John Prescott and Charles Clarke †â€ÂÂÂ� to appear with Ms King. In her speech Mrs Blair went on to attack the media because they could not be relied on to †œdeliver the partyââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s messageââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...7052_1,00.html

Do you really think that Labour were wheeling out the Big Guns (including the PM's *wife*!!) to support Oona King? Or were they just terrified that they'd suffer an embarassing defeat by Galloway and were doing their damndest to stop it by any means available?

You think it's pedantic nit picking when you are unable to substanciate your claim that the labour party have been attacking Galloway?
Personally I just call it asking for actual evidence, which again you've failed to provide.
None of the above show that the Labour party attacked him, in fact his comments directed about Oona herself by Galloway were rather unpleaseant.
So either retract your statement or show us some evidence that the Labour party attacked George Galloway.


__________________

Originally Posted by Graham

A leaflet that wasn't printed until *TWO DAYS* after the attack? Hmm...

Oh and "no witnesses"? In which case I think "presumed innocent until proven guilty" comes to mind.

I suppose those wounds were self inflicted then?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You think it's pedantic nit picking when you are unable to substanciate your claim that the labour party have been attacking Galloway?
Personally I just call it asking for actual evidence, which again you've failed to provide.

Excuse me? Is Oona King not a member of the Labour Party?

Or how about "Miss King shot back: "George Galloway says he wants to deliver more money for housing. Mr Galloway couldn't deliver a pizza."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...ge/4432191.stm

Or "It seems to me that Mr Galloway has read a lot of stories about Ronnie and Reggie Kray and thinks everyone is a crook in the East End" Alan Barnard
Ms King's campaign manager

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/uk_po...ge/4455635.stm

in fact his comments directed about Oona herself by Galloway were rather unpleaseant.

His comments about Oona King are irrelevant to the point.

I suppose those wounds were self inflicted then?

Xaccers, what the hell are you talking about? This man was attacked, yes, I don't deny that. What there is *NO PROOF* of is that it was done by members of the Respect Party and what evidence there is so far seems to demonstrate that these claims are fallacious.

Or how about "Miss King shot back: "George Galloway says he wants to deliver more money for housing. Mr Galloway couldn't deliver a pizza."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/...age/4432191.stm

Or "It seems to me that Mr Galloway has read a lot of stories about Ronnie and Reggie Kray and thinks everyone is a crook in the East End" Alan Barnard
Ms King's campaign manager

Thats not bad, thats normal election stuff. Howard called blair a liar, so thats nothing really.

Also I think what Galloway said is to the point

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Excuse me? Is Oona King not a member of the Labour Party?

Or how about "Miss King shot back: "George Galloway says he wants to deliver more money for housing. Mr Galloway couldn't deliver a pizza."

Ooo such a scathing despicable statement! I bet he was really upset when he heard that a single member of labour said such a nasty thing

Also, there is the point they we dont have any proof that he can deliver a pizza. He needs to know addresses, how to ride a bike and so on. Also he hasnt spent long in Bethnal Green so will he know where places are!! By the time it arrives it would be cold and everything! Then of course if you try to get a refund he will call you a kangaroo court and march against you calling you a warmonger while saluting the courage of other lazy pizza boys!

Yes, This Pizza issue isnt a piece of cake

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Ooo such a scathing despicable statement! I bet he was really upset when he heard that a single member of labour said such a nasty thing

And on that note, I see absolutely no point in continuing with this thread.

[BBKing]

Oona King on the radio just now saying that she agrees with Galloway on the Paxman interview - she finds being seen as just a 'black woman in Parliament' insulting, as do I.

Originally Posted by Graham

A leaflet that wasn't printed until *TWO DAYS* after the attack? Hmm...Oh and "no witnesses"? In which case I think "presumed innocent until proven guilty" comes to mind.
Is that the sound of axes being ground I hear...???
ROFLALALAL!!!
Oh deary, deary me.
*WHY* is it that people seem to assume that because I'm "attacking" Labour, they think I *must* be *defending* Galloway.
They have absolutely *NO* basis for such a belief, but think I am "taking sides" instead of just pointing out facts.

You made ridiculous allegations in regard to the Labour Party and its campaign in Bethnal Green & Bow. You provided no firm evidence to substantiate your ludicrous claims.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

You made ridiculous allegations in regard to the Labour Party and its campaign in Bethnal Green & Bow. You provided no firm evidence to substantiate your ludicrous claims.

And when that's pointed out, he departs leaving the rubble of his statement decaying in the dust.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

And when that's pointed out, he departs leaving the rubble of his statement decaying in the dust.

Ok, look, if it makes you happier:

Congratulations! You've trapped me with your clever web of words!

I put my hands up, I made a too sweeping generalisation and you've rightly taken me to task for it and proved that I was wrong and that it wasn't the Labour Party at all (just some of its members, although I'm not really sure what the difference is...) and you've demolished my proof and evidence (although I'm not sure you'd have even accepted a signed letter saying "yes, it wuz us, we done it, the Labour Party" at this point)

Bravo! Well done! Graham's got a taste of his own medicine...!!!

[Stuart]

For those who are interested, here is The Rockall Times' take on the victory

BTW, the Rockall Times is a satirical website.

Originally Posted by Graham

Ok, look, if it makes you happier:

Congratulations! You've trapped me with your clever web of words!

I put my hands up, I made a too sweeping generalisation and you've rightly taken me to task for it and proved that I was wrong and that it wasn't the Labour Party at all (just some of its members, although I'm not really sure what the difference is...) and you've demolished my proof and evidence (although I'm not sure you'd have even accepted a signed letter saying "yes, it wuz us, we done it, the Labour Party" at this point)

Bravo! Well done! Graham's got a taste of his own medicine...!!!

I suggest you look at the comments made by Oona King:

BBC Oona King

You might find it more rewarding to consider there are perhaps two or multiple sides to a story, you can hardly ignore what Oona King has to say.

Whilst we are on the topic, I think Jeremy Paxman raised a valid point which even an amauter spin doctor like galloway could have replied to and moved on, galloway's own conceited pride made that difficult. Oona King's responses and her as a leading black MP are interesting, but I think the point Paxman made was valid in this case.

Let's face it, you hate Labour that's all there is to it so one cannot expect reasoned responses from you. I don't know what your agenda is nor do I care.

Originally Posted by scastle

For those who are interested, here is The Rockall Times' take on the victory

Now that's the most sensible thing I've seen in the whole campaign!

BTW, the Rockall Times is a satirical website.

Aww! Why did you have to spoil it?!
__________________

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Let's face it, you hate Labour that's all there is to it so one cannot expect reasoned responses from you. I don't know what your agenda is nor do I care.

I wasn't going to comment again in this thread, but if this is what you believe, you have completely failed to understand what I have been talking about.

1) I do not "hate Labour". I disagree with their policies and the way they have behaved, I do not like what Tony Blair has done in government, but I do not "hate" them, nor do I let that colour my judgement.

2) My responses have been reasoned, unfortunately it seems that some people have assumed, incorrectly, that because I disagree with Labour's behaviour (or the behaviour of its members) I am somehow "supporting" George Galloway instead.

3) I have no "agenda". I have opinions which I have stated clearly and repeatedly, yet others seem to have done their best to misinterpret them in ways that have nothing to do with what I believe, but only with what they want to believe. I cannot be bothered to waste time correcting them any further.

[BBKing]

She argued it was "insulting" to suggest Mr Galloway should not have stood against her because she was a black woman.

Gogogo, did you hear the original interview with Oona King? I heard the whole thing (that BBC article is a summary of it, and misses bits).

Hence why I posted earlier in the thread about her stating that the whole 'black-woman-MP-is-somehow-special' thing that Paxman bought into was insulting to her, which I've been trying to suggest for a while in this thread. She had a lot of harsh words for Gorgeous George, unsurprisingly, but she *backed* him on the Paxman interview question ('was Paxman's question pointless, insulting and inflammatory?') which has to count for a lot.

If someone stands for Parliament, it's irrelevant what their skin colour, gender, sexual orientation or physical ability is - what matters is what they say and, when re-election time comes, what their record is. In the case of Oona King she backed the Government, got 34% of the vote and lost her seat. Diane Abbott, a short distance away in Hackney North & Stoke Newington, opposed the Government on Iraq and got re-elected with a 48.6% of the vote.

Oona King would still be MP for Bethnal Green and Bow if she'd taken the same line as Diane Abbott. Two black women, two similar inner east London ethnically diverse constituencies, two different views, two different results. Given that it's difficult to argue that her skin colour was the deciding factor - it was purely her decision to support her party leadership against the views of her constituents. Those two constituencies eventually elected candidates with highly differing origins, but with identical anti-war sentiments.

Originally Posted by BBKing

Gogogo, did you hear the original interview with Oona King? I heard the whole thing (that BBC article is a summary of it, and misses bits).

Hence why I posted earlier in the thread about her stating that the whole 'black-woman-MP-is-somehow-special' thing that Paxman bought into was insulting to her, which I've been trying to suggest for a while in this thread. She had a lot of harsh words for Gorgeous George, unsurprisingly, but she *backed* him on the Paxman interview question ('was Paxman's question pointless, insulting and inflammatory?') which has to count for a lot.

If someone stands for Parliament, it's irrelevant what their skin colour, gender, sexual orientation or physical ability is - what matters is what they say and, when re-election time comes, what their record is. In the case of Oona King she backed the Government, got 34% of the vote and lost her seat. Diane Abbott, a short distance away in Hackney North & Stoke Newington, opposed the Government on Iraq and got re-elected with a 48.6% of the vote.

Oona King would still be MP for Bethnal Green and Bow if she'd taken the same line as Diane Abbott. Two black women, two similar inner east London ethnically diverse constituencies, two different views, two different results. Given that it's difficult to argue that her skin colour was the deciding factor - it was purely her decision to support her party leadership against the views of her constituents. Those two constituencies eventually elected candidates with highly differing origins, but with identical anti-war sentiments.

OK. Remember the result between galloway and Oona King was close, less than a thousand votes. People have all sorts of reasons for voting for a particular candidate, I'm not sure how far, given the result was close, you can say with any certainty Iraq a deciding factor. From experience I know that when Labour voters are upset they tend to abstain or can't be bothered to vote for anyone. There may well have been numbers who normally support Labour but were attracted to galloway's party or Lib Dem. I haven't had the time to study the turnouts for Bethnal Green & Bow for 1992,1997 & 2001, but will do later.

On the issue of the Paxman statement to galloway. Having been at election counts I know what an exhausting and stressful experience counts can be and given the circumstances in Bethnal Green & Bow I'm sure the tension was greater than normal and I'm sure everyone was very tired. Paxman raised a point that galloway had succeeded at the expense of a black, jewish female MP, a good constituency MP by all accounts. I can understand her response, I have no problem with her position, I have a lot of respect for her, but I imagine the London Labour Party will be concerned at the loss of an exceptional MP and it will be seen as a setback for black advancement.

Now, galloway is capable of giving a reasoned answer and when challenged failed to attempt to answer the question, got stroppy threatened to walk off, but clearly decided to hang on realising this would not look good for him, David Lammy MP was sitting next to Paxman and clearly also felt this was a setback.

Dianne Abbot has her own problems, having decided to send her child to private school an unpopular decison within her own constituency party, no doubt her stand on Iraq became useful but then I'm a cynic at heart.

Hopefully, Oona King will be on a list for the House of lords she certainly deserves it in comparison to other recent promotions.