Household wiring > regulations - calling 4a sparky.

zoombini · 18-04-2005, 11:14

Hello, do we have any qualified electricians here that can answer a simple question for me.

In domestic wiring, I know that you can spur off of the ring only once per socket.

However, with a junction box, provided it is only 1 socket per spur cable.

According to the regulations, how many unfused spurs can you make from a 32A junction box ?

I.E. must it be
ring in- junction box - ring out
.........1 spur........

or can it be
ring in- junction box - ring out
.... spur 1...spur 2........

I can't seem to find the correct reg for it.
Thankyou.

MovedGoalPosts · 18-04-2005, 12:05

My understanding (I'm not an electrician) is that junction boxes are frowned upon in power circuits (Legitimate for use in lighting though).

Be careful these days with domestic wiring. Changes in the Building Regs means that you need approval for a lot of wiring stuff. This includes anything external (gardens etc), anything in kitchens (could be as simple as moving a socket) and I think bathrooms, anything involving complete new circuits, and of course complete rewiring.

zoombini · 18-04-2005, 12:32

I know all about the new part P regs.

I do not need to notify etc for additional sockets or maintenance which is what this is.

As for being careful, anything I do to my homes wiring would be a great improvement over how it was when I moved in.

So far I have found several points where the earth was not connected, "all" terminals in the consumer unit were very looses & wires could fall out easily, metal back boxes have not been earthed, inadequate junction boxes were uses, upstairs sockets were spurred off the downstairs ring & the wrong cores have been used for earthing on some parts.

"A reet mess".

I'm sorting it properly but just want to clarify the odd bit esp about spurs (not the football club please!) as I generally never use them & have been replacing them with inclusion into the ring where possible.

It's just that I'm having wardrobes fitted tomorrow & I cannot get the ring up that far so am left with a spur, yet I want a socket either side of the bed so need 2 spur's (not the cowboy ones

).

.

orangebird · 18-04-2005, 12:40

My boyfriends an electrician...have called him but I can't get hold of him...

Is this any good to you?

MovedGoalPosts · 18-04-2005, 12:42

It's amazing what spaghetti some people create in the so called name of wiring. It's why the new regulations were brought in.

If you can get a spur to where you want your new sockets, whcih is a single cable, can you not pull through two cables? In that case you are able to simply extend the ring main itself?

SMHarman · 18-04-2005, 13:06

^what he said...

If not then JB > 13A fused in line switch > Socket 1 > Socket 2 you can have as many (well in reason) sockets as you want from a fused Spur. You will need visibility of the fused switch incase it blows though.

You could put the fused switch next to one of the sockets that would keep it neat.

zoombini · 18-04-2005, 13:10

I'd rather not pull the entire ring up through the wardrobes.

I want to put a fused box on the floor under the wardrobe, either side so that I can then take a cable from that.
This way the wardrobes can be removed safely etc, taking the full ring up will mean total power off & more rewiring if they are removed.

As for the mess, another bit of it is the shower, the water pipe is earthed by a nice big 2.5mm Green/Yellow cable.
Bared for about 8" & twisted round the pipe

I can't wait to get at that lot.

That page does help a bit OB, it says that it is a "reccomendation" that you only have 1 spur per outlet.

Perhaps instead I should just take the ring through to the fused boxes & then out again.

Cheers.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman

You will need visibility of the fused switch incase it blows though.

Is that in the regs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman

You could put the fused switch next to one of the sockets that would keep it neat.

I don't fancy having a fused box on my bedside ta, it will be hidden under the draws where it can't be seen.

Caspar · 18-04-2005, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

It's amazing what spaghetti some people create in the so called name of wiring. It's why the new regulations were brought in.

Don't start me off!!!... I have to have my heating on upstair (not downstairs) to be able to heat hot water! ...the switch I fitted works fine....and is wired correctly, i think...my brother (a sparky), says that they are cross-wired somewhere in the house

and it need a proper seeing to....

MovedGoalPosts · 18-04-2005, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombini

As for the mess, another bit of it is the shower, the water pipe is earthed by a nice big 2.5mm Green/Yellow cable.
Bared for about 8" & twisted round the pipe

I can't wait to get at that lot.

That's nothing. My house had the entire first floor circuits earthed by taking a wire from the ring circuit across to the shower supply wire. That wire's outer plastic was slit and the earth wires simply wound round each other. I have no idea why the ring main did not continue the earth back to the fuseboard. On the ground floor, ring main cables were simply joined by winding the leads against each other and wrapping with insulation tape

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoombini

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman

You will need visibility of the fused switch incase it blows though.

Is that in the regs?

Even if it isn't you want fusing points to ba accessible for maintenance, etc

zoombini · 18-04-2005, 14:38

Easy maintenece, just lift out the drawers.

etccarmageddon · 18-04-2005, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caspar

Don't start me off!!!... I have to have my heating on upstair (not downstairs) to be able to heat hot water! ...the switch I fitted works fine....and is wired correctly, i think...my brother (a sparky), says that they are cross-wired somewhere in the house

and it need a proper seeing to....

I might be wrong but this is what an engineer once told me...

it could be a fault in the valve in your central heating system - there's a valve that controls flow of hot water to both your heating and hot water - if it doesnt work correctly it sometimes means you need the heating on in order to get heat to your hot water. it's that square metal box that usually resides near your heating pump and the hot water tank.

SMHarman · 18-04-2005, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombini

I'd rather not pull the entire ring up through the wardrobes.

I want to put a fused box on the floor under the wardrobe, either side so that I can then take a cable from that.
This way the wardrobes can be removed safely etc, taking the full ring up will mean total power off & more rewiring if they are removed.

As for the mess, another bit of it is the shower, the water pipe is earthed by a nice big 2.5mm Green/Yellow cable.
Bared for about 8" & twisted round the pipe

I can't wait to get at that lot.

That page does help a bit OB, it says that it is a "reccomendation" that you only have 1 spur per outlet.

Perhaps instead I should just take the ring through to the fused boxes & then out again.

Cheers.
__________________

Is that in the regs?

I don't fancy having a fused box on my bedside ta, it will be hidden under the draws where it can't be seen.

Why? Something like this is most tidy and neat...
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/products...1&rangeid=1030

I don't know about visibility, but if the fuse were to blow I would not want to have to move a wardrobe to fix it.

zoombini · 18-04-2005, 15:27

No, it's not a case of removing wardrobes, just pulling out & removing the drawers.

I really don't want to have the ring main wired up through wardrobes, neither do I want the protection visible.

I have enough spare fused spur boxes etc.

By simply placing the spur on the floorboards, underneath the back of the bottom draw it should enable me to then wire up through the bedside draw unit to a socket fitted to it. Then if needs be, remove the drawers to service it should there be a problem. Individual fuse failure is most unlikely as it is all RCCD protected.

As for Caspar's heating, even if the wires were cross wired, it should work. My bet would be that the diaphragm in the main valve is shot.
I had this problem on my boiler, needed the heating to be on to draw hot water.

Replaced the diaphragm (cost ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£17) and all was fine. (The entire valve will cost ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100+).

SMHarman · 18-04-2005, 15:33

Don't the regs require sockets and switches are 300mm from floor level (and switches are also at a certain height from the floor

Indians · 18-04-2005, 17:06

Max 2 singles or 1 twin on a spur, you should not have more spurs than there are sockets on the ring (twins or singles).