Workers To Win Bank Holiday Rights

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by andyl

They are low paid, they deserve their holidays. Simple as that.

The small business I used to work for got 30k just to relocate, within the same borough, from the premises the boss's pension fund owned to another building he was buying (I won't mention the Beamer and TT!). Small business gets plenty of help and likes to moan plenty. If life that's hard for them they can always get a low wage job with no BH entitlement.

I worked hard, continue to work hard, and don't get paid BHs as such, but that does not stop me agreeing that others, and in particular the low paid, should get them as a right.
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You might find it easy others don't, particularly in the low wage economy where rights can be scarce. Your attitude, if I may speak almost frankly, whiffs a little! It's not a sin to show a bit of compassion and a sense of justice you know


EDIT: Your post reminded me a little of that Monty Python Yorkshiremen sketch; "I worked, hard, six, seven, eight days a week, with only one clog between us...... You had a clog, you were lucky...."
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Popular around where?!!

Companies seem to be doing very nicely thank you very much. Shame they keep coming out with the begging bowl for grants, tax breaks, allowances etc Scrounging sods!

I'm only picking up on one point.

Not all companies get money to relocate, one of my friends runs a business employing himself, wife, one engineer and a young technician. He can get sod all, and was renting space off a company for about 10 years. In the past two years he has moved house to a premises that has a large outbuilding to run his business from, he has some very innovative designs, and his products are lifesaving.

However the companied that get relocation help in our area are the ones like.

Trico.
Windscreen wiper manufacturer, they got Millions in WDA/government grant to open a factory in my area. They made all the employees redundant in their London location and sold off the land/building. They have recently announced redundancies here so they can move production to the far east.

LG Electronics.
Again WDA/Government grants for Millions to set up a factory in South Wales. The local authority got millions to build a road, and houses were purchased near the site when residents complained. The local colleges got huge grants to set-up dummy production lines, flow soldering machines, pick and place machines etc, the company hardly sent anyone on the courses. The local authority demolished a grade 1 listed building to make way for the factory.

I understand the agreement for the factory was X number of years, the Koreans pulled out of the scheme and only ever operated a small prt of the one factory they had custom built by taxpayers money. They had another factory that had 24hr security paid for by the taxpayer, and they never even set foot in it, I understand that under the agreement the WDA could not offer the factory to any other company until the agreement was up.

Wireless Systems International.

Again big WDA/Government grants and a purpouse built factory, they never actually produced a product. The whole thing closed leaving hundreds without a job.

The 30K you talk about is cheicken feed compared to the hundreds of millions given away to foreign companies who set up and move on after the grants and free rent finishes.

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

Popular around where?!!

Companies seem to be doing very nicely thank you very much. Shame they keep coming out with the begging bowl for grants, tax breaks, allowances etc Scrounging sods!

Yeah, whatever was I thinking! No anti-corporate hatred around here

Funny, the company I work for is really struggling, and I have taken multiple paycuts. I'd like to know where you get all this free money from, because we can do with it.

Funny, would you call a person, struggling in hard times, a scrounging sod for accepting help? Thought not.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Just because I'm a teacher doen't mean I can't stand up for those in poorly paid,low status jobs...or are us teachers all supposed to be card carrying Tories? My grandfather worked for over 30 years for his union and I'm rightly proud of his achievements in defending the downtrodden workers during his time as local branch secretary...

Your problem is that you are so anti-Blair you can't see straight.Well I've no time for Blair(too damned tory like for me) but I do have time for this suggestion...

As for that cr@p about not accepting poor conditions...if you turn down too many jobs you can find your benefits being cut....and so many employers know this fact.

I'm definitely going to have to unsubscribe before I say what I really THINK....

Well said that woman! But please could you say what you really think

I too am no Blair fan - God, no! - but this is an initiative grounded in decency. Anyone who would deny poorly paid people their holidays is immoral and living in another era.

You know what I didn't this thread would be very controversial. I was wrong. Still gotta be a first for everything
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Originally Posted by punky

Yeah, whatever was I thinking! No anti-corporate hatred around here

Er, no, some of my best clients are businesses I've seen people labelled as ****, scrotes, scroungers etc on a variety of threads so pointing out that business also benefits from taxpayers' money is pretty mild I'd say

Funny, the company I work for is really struggling, and I have taken multiple paycuts. I'd like to know where you get all this free money from, because we can do with it.

me283 says you can just go out and get another job! Hope things improve for you and your company though - but that doesn't mean other workers should be denied BH as a rule

Funny, would you call a person, struggling in hard times, a scrounging sod for accepting help? Thought not.

Ah, but would you?! And I thought you were a free marketeer? Surely not condoning State intervention in funding business (or do you just opposeState intervention when it benefits workers?!)
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Originally Posted by Escapee

....The 30K you talk about is cheicken feed compared to the hundreds of millions given away to foreign companies who set up and move on after the grants and free rent finishes.

Yeah it was just an example from personal experience. I could add to your list. Grant to First Choice (UK company) for call centre in Kilmarnock dependent on it staying open until May. They're undergoing a statutory redundancy consultation which is due to end... in June.

Then there was that electronics factory in Durham (Philips?). Similar story.

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

me283 says you can just go out and get another job! Hope things improve for you and your company though - but that doesn't mean other workers should be denied BH as a rule

Of course I can, and there might come a time when I will have to. But if theres all this free money going, then surely there would be no need - unless there isn't of course.

Ah, but would you?! And I thought you were a free marketeer? Surely not condoning State intervention in funding business (or do you just opposeState intervention when it benefits workers?!)

Not all social security receiptients are scroungers (your words). I am not going to go into another argument about this, but i'll try and glance over it and hopefully clarify my position. Some people genuinely deserve help, which is why social security is there. We pay tax to help keep the fabric of society together. Police, army, hospital - and to help protect people if they deserve it. I do support support social security which is one issue I wear my leftie hat (I always say with my political opinion, I am a centrist and straddle both sides.. which is why I seem to end up arguing with both). I do support helping the vunerable, but when I am paying for it, even only in a small part, then I want that system to be run as efficiently as possible, helping as many people as possible, for the least cost. It needs to be redesigned not scrapped.

I am a free marketeer as you say, and I do oppose an all-emcompassing nanny state constantly meddling in the affairs of its citizens. Sometimes it is needed, in this case? I am not convinced.... And I am certainly apprehensive about the government happily prancing off all these new election-winning ideas to help people, when someone else has to pick up the cost. Its spending other people's money, and like I said, if you are trying to keep people in gainful employment (without doing a Labour and reducing unemployment by filling nonsense public sector jobs), then it is counter-productive to keep squeezing companies who are supposed to be employing people. This isn't the first and only idea to benefit people that screws over the companies either.

I don't think I can clarify my position any better, but if you still can't appreciate where I am coming from, then i'll have to step out, and let the usual banter continue around me.

Originally Posted by punky

Of course I can, and there might come a time when I will have to. But if theres all this free money going, then surely there would be no need - unless there isn't of course.




Not all social security receiptients are scroungers (your words). I am not going to go into another argument about this, but i'll try and glance over it and hopefully clarify my position. Some people genuinely deserve help, which is why social security is there. We pay tax to help keep the fabric of society together. Police, army, hospital - and to help protect people if they deserve it. I do support support social security which is one issue I wear my leftie hat (I always say with my political opinion, I am a centrist and straddle both sides.. which is why I seem to end up arguing with both). I do support helping the vunerable, but when I am paying for it, even only in a small part, then I want that system to be run as efficiently as possible, helping as many people as possible, for the least cost. It needs to be redesigned not scrapped.

I am a free marketeer as you say, and I do oppose an all-emcompassing nanny state constantly meddling in the affairs of its citizens. Sometimes it is needed, in this case? I am not convinced.... And I am certainly apprehensive about the government happily prancing off all these new election-winning ideas to help people, when someone else has to pick up the cost. Its spending other people's money, and like I said, if you are trying to keep people in gainful employment (without doing a Labour and reducing unemployment by filling nonsense public sector jobs), then it is counter-productive to keep squeezing companies who are supposed to be employing people. This isn't the first and only idea to benefit people that screws over the companies either.

I don't think I can clarify my position any better, but if you still can't appreciate where I am coming from, then i'll have to step out, and let the usual banter continue around me.

Afore ye go.... it's not 'free' money, it's part of the pay package, or at least will be. People work hard in these jobs and deserve their BH breaks like most other workers.

anyways, see you on another thread soon

[me283]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Just because I'm a teacher doen't mean I can't stand up for those in poorly paid,low status jobs...or are us teachers all supposed to be card carrying Tories? My grandfather worked for over 30 years for his union and I'm rightly proud of his achievements in defending the downtrodden workers during his time as local branch secretary...

Your problem is that you are so anti-Blair you can't see straight.Well I've no time for Blair(too damned tory like for me) but I do have time for this suggestion...

As for that cr@p about not accepting poor conditions...if you turn down too many jobs you can find your benefits being cut....and so many employers know this fact.

I'm definitely going to have to unsubscribe before I say what I really THINK....

Reminds me of a chap I once worked for, stood by his company-supplied Mercedes, saying that "everyone should have a new car". A teacher talking about more payment for holidays? Don't make me laugh!

And as for anti-Blair? In a roundabout way, yes. I am actually anti-idiot, and I think he is an idiot in some aspects. But that doesn't mean I am against everything that is "Blair". I tend to think with common sense, not a bleeding heart.

If you turn down too many jobs your benefits will be cut. So what is the answer? I know... take the first job, whether it suits you or not. Then when you realise it doesn't, just expect the employer to change it to your liking! Brilliant! Why didn't Mr. Bliar think of that one...?

Finally, please do tell me what you really THINK. I would prefer that to you just jumping on the "let's give a helping hand to the poor and needy" bandwagon. After all, what's going to be the cause celebre next week? Single Mums? Muslims (oh no, we've had that one). Pensioners? Ask yourself one thing: if this particular social group is so needy, why did Labour wait 8 years to address the "problem", rather than do so conveniently just before an election? Any rocket scientists out there care to provide an answer? As Vic would say, the clue is in the question.

Originally Posted by me283

Reminds me of a chap I once worked for, stood by his company-supplied Mercedes, saying that "everyone should have a new car". A teacher talking about more payment for holidays? Don't make me laugh!

And as for anti-Blair? In a roundabout way, yes. I am actually anti-idiot, and I think he is an idiot in some aspects. But that doesn't mean I am against everything that is "Blair". I tend to think with common sense, not a bleeding heart.

If you turn down too many jobs your benefits will be cut. So what is the answer? I know... take the first job, whether it suits you or not. Then when you realise it doesn't, just expect the employer to change it to your liking! Brilliant! Why didn't Mr. Bliar think of that one...?

Finally, please do tell me what you really THINK. I would prefer that to you just jumping on the "let's give a helping hand to the poor and needy" bandwagon. After all, what's going to be the cause celebre next week? Single Mums? Muslims (oh no, we've had that one). Pensioners? Ask yourself one thing: if this particular social group is so needy, why did Labour wait 8 years to address the "problem", rather than do so conveniently just before an election? Any rocket scientists out there care to provide an answer? As Vic would say, the clue is in the question.

So you'd have supported this if Labour had done it in May 97?! Agree though, should have been a much higher priority (that was your point yeah?).

No offence, but your ranting a bit mate

And you're baiting Coggy. Brave man!

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

So you'd have supported this if Labour had done it in May 97?! Agree though, should have been a much higher priority (that was your point yeah?).

No offence, but your ranting a bit mate

And you're baiting Coggy. Brave man!

I worked for many years, helping to run a startup business where the directors paid themselves less than the YTS lads. The staff were greedy b****rds, and used to drive flash cars, had nice houses etc. It grew to employ over 60 people. These measures would have crippled it in months. It is a BAD idea, done purely to win votes.

Rant? Moi? Never! But I object to being pigeon-holed. I am a free thinker.

Baiting is all part of life. The question is, who is baiting whom?

Originally Posted by me283

I worked for many years, helping to run a startup business where the directors paid themselves less than the YTS lads. The staff were greedy b****rds, and used to drive flash cars, had nice houses etc. It grew to employ over 60 people. These measures would have crippled it in months. It is a BAD idea, done purely to win votes.

Rant? Moi? Never! But I object to being pigeon-holed. I am a free thinker.

Baiting is all part of life. The question is, who is baiting whom?

Actually teachers holidays already include the Bank holidays.Don't get them separate anyway...

However I'm not thinking of me you twit...Which you already know IF you were actually paying any attention...

I can see somone going on ignore at this rate...

[me283]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

However I'm not thinking of me you twit...Which you already know IF you were actually paying any attention...

Sounds like a nice reasoned debate to me. Just like the teachers when I was at school. It's funny, but they could dish it out too, but could never take it back...

It's a GOOD idea for two million people.

Having read many of your posts, 'free thinker' wasn't the description in my mind

And teachers have a tough job. The whole summer hols thing is a non-starter. The hours they put in.... (is that enough now Coggy?! )

Originally Posted by andyl

It's a GOOD idea for two million people.

Having read many of your posts, 'free thinker' wasn't the description in my mind

And teachers have a tough job. The whole summer hols thing is a non-starter. The hours they put in.... (is that enough now Coggy?! )

Ach! I should have realised it was a wind up against me from the start...

After all teachers are fair game for some....

However when challenged most wouldn't even consider doing the job...even for the holidays.

<unsubscribe>

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

It's a GOOD idea for two million people.

Having read many of your posts, 'free thinker' wasn't the description in my mind

And teachers have a tough job. The whole summer hols thing is a non-starter. The hours they put in.... (is that enough now Coggy?! )

That should win a few votes then.

I am a free thinker... my judgement is not clouded by what I should think, or what others think... I make my own decisions based on what I believe to be right; those decisions are influenced by knowledge, experience and research. Also, I live in the real world. You guys should visit some time. That's if you don't think it will offend, disadvantage, or upset anyone. In fact bring everyone else, after all, we all have to be equal, don't we?

Good night all.
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Originally Posted by Incognitas

Ach! I should have realised it was a wind up against me from the start...

After all teachers are fair game for some....

However when challenged most wouldn't even consider doing the job...even for the holidays.

<unsubscribe>

Funny, but I have several friends who are teachers, but they too live in the real world.

Originally Posted by me283

That should win a few votes then.

I am a free thinker... my judgement is not clouded by what I should think, or what others think... I make my own decisions based on what I believe to be right; those decisions are influenced by knowledge, experience and research. Also, I live in the real world. You guys should visit some time. That's if you don't think it will offend, disadvantage, or upset anyone. In fact bring everyone else, after all, we all have to be equal, don't we?

Nice. Brought me down a peg or too.

Funny, but I have several friends who are teachers, but they too live in the real world.

I have friends who will benefit from this measure. Their world is all too real.
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However when challenged most wouldn't even consider doing the job...even for the holidays.

Me included. I've been a school governor...... as I say tough job (and too much bureaucracy. And as for those SATS. And OFSTED. And.... )

Originally Posted by me283

That should win a few votes then.

I am a free thinker... my judgement is not clouded by what I should think, or what others think... I make my own decisions based on what I believe to be right; those decisions are influenced by knowledge, experience and research. Also, I live in the real world. You guys should visit some time. That's if you don't think it will offend, disadvantage, or upset anyone. In fact bring everyone else, after all, we all have to be equal, don't we?

Good night all.
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Funny, but I have several friends who are teachers, but they too live in the real world.

I think I TEACH in the real world.