*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please. - Page 75

Neil · 10-03-2005, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Wrong about saying or implying that anyone using 2GB a day must be breaking the law.

No I wasn't-& I offered educated facts to support my claim, something that you haven't done yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Wrong about saying 2GB a day is excessive for home use.

It is, I can't be wrong.

[Edit]-Thanks for the red rep, next time you lose the ability to discuss something like an adult, feel free to do it again.

jtwn · 10-03-2005, 12:40

OMG, got to reply.

Quote:

Wrong about what?

'I'm willing to bet this site that your downloads are most illegal' - You are referring to downloading on p2p, don't deny, i told you along with others, its not illegal.

Quote:

That an opinion or a fact?

Fact, its just happened here.

Quote:

Anyway-we're both taking this off topic now, so if you want to continue this discussion, we'll keep it off the board.

I think we will agree to disagree. All talk here has fallen under the topic title, you are arguing that downloading excessively must be illegal, and that the cap would curb users who do this. I'm saying its not illegal.

dirtydog · 10-03-2005, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

No I wasn't-& I offered educated facts to support my claim, something that you haven't done yet.

You reject out of hand my post about leaving the p2p client uploading 24/7, then? You reject out of hand the idea that I could possibly be uploading Linux distros or other perfectly legal files 24/7?

Don't you get it? Using 2GB a day legally isn't about downloading loads of Linux distros every day.

Now you may think I am lying, in which case fair enough. But you cannot deny that what I have just said is a plausible and legal usage of 2GB bandwidth a day. 1GB uploads (mostly p2p), 1GB downloads.

Nemesis · 10-03-2005, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

You reject out of hand my post about leaving the p2p client uploading 24/7, then? You reject out of hand the idea that I could possibly be uploading Linux distros or other perfectly legal files 24/7?

Don't you get it? Using 2GB a day legally isn't about downloading loads of Linux distros every day.

Now you may think I am lying, in which case fair enough. But you cannot deny that what I have just said is a plausible and legal usage of 2GB bandwidth a day. 1GB uploads (mostly p2p), 1GB downloads.

So you do this every day ??

dirtydog · 10-03-2005, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So you do this every day ??

What, leave my p2p client running? Yes I do.

Neil · 10-03-2005, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

You reject out of hand my post about leaving the p2p client uploading 24/7, then? You reject out of hand the idea that I could possibly be uploading Linux distros or other perfectly legal files 24/7?

Oh, so now it's "other" perfectly legal files is it?, but Yes I do reject that you could (as I keep saying) constantly be downloading 2GB of legal data per day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Don't you get it? Using 2GB a day legally isn't about downloading loads of Linux distros every day.

You'd still have to some to grab 2GB of legal data daily/constantly whatever way you look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Now you may think I am lying, in which case fair enough. But you cannot deny that what I have just said is a plausible and legal usage of 2GB bandwidth a day. 1GB uploads (mostly p2p), 1GB downloads.

You upload 1GB per day???

Ok, this is where the issue lies-you are confusing my comments of 2GB of downloads, with a gig of uploads per day.

I'm still willing to bet that your 1GB of uploads per day are files/torrents/whatever, that you have downloaded in your 1GB per day.

Either way, you would still be hard pressed to download 1GB of legal data every day per month on a residential connection, that's all I'm saying.

Nemesis · 10-03-2005, 12:52

so what are you dowloading that takes 2Gb per day ?? .. and how do you find enough time to deal with the stuff you downloaded?

dirtydog · 10-03-2005, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

You upload 1GB per day???

On average yes - did you see my NetMeter log for the last week that I posted previously?

Quote:

I'm still willing to bet that your 1GB of uploads per day are files/torrents/whatever, that you have downloaded in your 1GB per day.

Let's say I download the Suse Linux DVD which is 4.5GB. The fairest way to distribute this, which doesn't use Suse's bandwidth and therefore cost Suse anything, is to distribute it via p2p. If I leave my p2p client running it will upload that one file 24/7 indefinitely, even if I had no other files to share, just that one.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

so what are you dowloading that takes 2Gb per day ?? .. and how do you find enough time to deal with the stuff you downloaded?

When did I say I was downloading 2GB per day?

DieDieMyDarling · 10-03-2005, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

What evidence would you expoect to see, and why would you think YOU would be in a better position to judge it than the people that manage ntl's service?

Well the fact that ntl haven't hard capped, is a good sign that they haven't found it to be true either. I'd expect to see people on here, and on other forums, complaining about slow service, then finding out it's due to an overused UBR - thanks to the helpful techs on here.

I'm not claiming to be in ANY position, but i'd expect to see traces of it on here. Most problems get raised on here, and in most cases sorted, which is what brought me here in the first place.

Neil · 10-03-2005, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

On average yes - did you see my NetMeter log for the last week that I posted previously?

Let's say I download the Suse Linux DVD which is 4.5GB. The fairest way to distribute this, which doesn't use Suse's bandwidth and therefore cost Suse anything, is to distribute it via p2p. If I leave my p2p client running it will upload that one file 24/7 indefinitely, even if I had no other files to share, just that one.

Ah-the old "Linux ISO" chestnut again......

Nemesis · 10-03-2005, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Let's say I download the Suse Linux DVD which is 4.5GB. The fairest way to distribute this, which doesn't use Suse's bandwidth and therefore cost Suse anything, is to distribute it via p2p. If I leave my p2p client running it will upload that one file 24/7 indefinitely, even if I had no other files to share, just that one.

So ... why are YOU distributing it ?????

Business ??

Why do you care about SUSE's bandwidth, it's probably much better than yours, and in doing so you are affecting other ntl customers.

DieDieMyDarling · 10-03-2005, 13:01

To be fair Neil, you were wrong, you've missed the point of his argument. You claimed people couldn't download 2GB a day without involving illegal downloads, and he raised the point that technically it's not illegal, as downloading copyrighted material isn't illegal (yet).

As far as UK law goes (to my understanding) only people sharing the material, selling, etc, are breaking the law. It's still morally wrong, and i'm sure the law will be changed quite soon, if the relevant lawyers have their way!

Neil · 10-03-2005, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So ... why are YOU distributing it ?????

Business ??

Why do you care about SUSE's bandwidth, it's probably much better than yours, and in doing so you are affecting other ntl customers.

And contravening the ntl AUP......

DieDieMyDarling · 10-03-2005, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So ... why are YOU distributing it ?????

Business ??

Why do you care about SUSE's bandwidth, it's probably much better than yours, and in doing so you are affecting other ntl customers.

Is there evidence for this?

dirtydog · 10-03-2005, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So ... why are YOU distributing it ?????

Business ??

Why do you care about SUSE's bandwidth, it's probably much better than yours, and in doing so you are affecting other ntl customers.

You may not realise this but Suse and other Linux producers make little or no money from their releases. (Suse do charge for some; others like Ubuntu are totally free). Bandwidth costs them a lot of money, so one way of helping Linux devs is to distribute their distros via p2p.

The Linux sites themselves ask people to use bittorrent and to leave their client running afterwards as it 'saves us money'. It is called giving back to the Linux community, rather than just taking.

Neil, I know you think you are clever but trust me.. you aren't

Your patronising replies get boring very quickly. You refuse to acknowledge there are legal and legitimate reasons for running a p2p client 24/7 and uploading 1gig a day.