NTL Broadband Terms & Conditions Moving House?

[h3adru5h]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

No. Sorry, this is a common misconception.

What you're thinking of is the Distance Selling Regulations. This gives customers a period of 7 days to cancel the contract PRIOR TO INSTALLATION, and only where the company have approached them.

In practice ntl will always allow a cancellation prior to install regardless.

However, once the services are installed THAT IS IT. You do NOT have a period of time to decide if you like the services. ntl will NOT spend hundreds of pounds installing you, only for you to decide you don't really like it and then have it removed a week later. This applies even if the seven and fourteen day periods have not expired....they expire immediately upon installation.

This is a fact, and anyone who thinks otherwise, I suggest you get the service installed then try and cancel the following day. Ain't gonna happen.

Obviously things are different if the installed service doesn't work. But if it is installed and works, and you simply change your mind the next day, then I'm afraid it is tough tumshy....and rightly so!

Whoah!

This information is incorrect. Due to the services operating on rented equipment from ntl: then the same rules apply as governed by the Consumer Credit Act. You may wish to check this out prior to posting incorrect naughties on the forum mate.... (it's my job to know this btw).

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Sadly I don't have access to my Ntl email account any longer but this same question came up about a year ago and I checked with the Ntl legal department who sent me a loooooonnnnnggg explanation of all the ins and outs of the contracts.

Basically it all boiled down to once the services were installed, working and signed off then the minimum term kicked in. This was one of the reasons why 7 days was (almost always) left between confirmation and installation.

Well the BBC/Watchdog website says differently, & (no offence) but I know which one I believe.

(Just for clarity-thats the BBC-as opposed to ntl, I'm not saying I disbelieve you personally. )

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Neil

Well the BBC/Watchdog website says differently, & (no offence) but I know which one I believe.

But there are exceptions to this rule (airline tickets being the one that immediately springs to mind.
There was something that Ntl used to defeat the DSR if it ever came to court. I just wish I had thought to keep a copy of it somewhere.

[ian@huth]

Just having read this thread from my last posting in it #129 it appears that no one has bothered to take note of that post.

The contract between NTL and the customer is a Hire Agreement made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. To be fully enforcable the Act requires that Agreements are in writing and signed by both parties.

Cancellation rights (changing your mind about the contract) may or may not exist and depend on where the contract was signed. If the contract was negotiated and signed on NTLs premises then there is no right to cancel (cooling off period). If the contract was negotiated by phone or letter and signed in the customers home then again there is no right to cancel. If the contract was negotiated face to face and signed away from NTLs premises then there is a right to cancel. Cancellation can still take place after the equipment has been installed if it is within the cancellation period that the law stipulates. An installation satisfaction form, if worded in the correct manner, can remove the termination right if the customer signs it.

One point to remember si

Regulations made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which have been in
operation since May 1985, are designed to ensure that people who hire goods have
a clear record of their agreements with owners, and of their rights and obligations
under those agreements. The relevant regulations are listed in Appendix 8 on
page 43.
All regulated hire agreements must be in writing †“ and they must give specific
information in a specific way. There are also rules on when and how owners must
supply hirers with copies of their agreements.

The quote was from a document at http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A...0/0/oft017.pdf

Whether Agreements are cancelable or not are summarised at
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C...D/0/oft018.pdf
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1...E/0/oft019.pdf

[cr80123]

I saw it Ian, and assumed from it that my agreement is not legally enforcable as it was not given in writing and I did not sign it.

[Derek]

Did you, or anyone else left to supervise the installation sign the satisfaction sheet?

[cr80123]

Well yes but surely that's the satisfactory installation sheet (it was just one sheet of paper on a clipboard with lots of boxes on it), not the hire agreement. I don't suppose ntl would have a chance in hell of finding it anyway.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Did you, or anyone else left to supervise the installation sign the satisfaction sheet?

Myself I signed the contract with a NTL salesman at my home. I did sign the satisfaction sheet but cannot remember the detail of it but do know that I was satisfied with the content of it. Is there an online copy of this form or can one be scanned and posted?

If anyone is unsure of what they signed they can always ask NTL for copies of all documentation, memos, notes and computer records that they hold. This is done under the Data Protection Act which may involve a £10 fee.

I was present at my daughters installation and the installers didn't ask for any satisfaction signature which I thought was rather odd.

The law is very specific. The information given to NTL employees appears to be very flawed and some statements that have been posted by them on here have been completely contrary to the provisions of the law.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

Whoah!

This information is incorrect. Due to the services operating on rented equipment from ntl: then the same rules apply as governed by the Consumer Credit Act. You may wish to check this out prior to posting incorrect naughties on the forum mate.... (it's my job to know this btw).

Like I've said, the so-called 'cooling off period' doesn't apply once the services are installed.

It is commonly mistaken for a 'trial period', when it isn't.

The said period legally only applies to installations that are sold by a salesman who calls at the customer's house. It's then 'distance selling'. These are always booked for seven days later anyway as a matter of process.

If a customer rings up, requests the service, then changes their mind the day after install...it's bad luck I'm afraid.

Like I've said earlier, get a company to install some windows then tell them you've changed your mind the day after they have fitted them. Not going to happen.

And please don't tell me I'm posting 'naughties'. Dealing with these sort of requests used to be my job, and the whys and wherefores of the contract were part of our in-depth training for that job.

There is, as I have stated, a different situation if the service does not work properly once installed. The customer is then entitled to reject the service under the sale of goods act. Although the company will always offer to get it fixed, which in many cases the customer is happy with, the customer is under no obligation to accept this.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

If a customer rings up, requests the service, then changes their mind the day after install...it's bad luck I'm afraid.

Sorry m8, but I don't agree.

According to The BBC Watchdog site, the following applies....

Originally Posted by Watchdog

CONSUMER PROTECTION (DISTANCE SELLING)
These regulations apply to most contracts made at a distance. They require consumers to be given a certain amount of information before they commit themselves to the deal. They also provide a short cancellation period.

The actual length of the cancellation period, however, depends on whether or not the required information has been given. If not it is three months and seven working days.

Taken from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/guides...w/index4.shtml

[Edit]-More info here....

Originally Posted by The Government!

†¢ The consumer has a cooling off period in which they can withdraw from the contract for any reason. The cooling off period begins as soon as the order has been made and ends, in the case of services, seven working days after the day the order was made, or in the case of goods, seven working days after the day of receipt of the goods; and

†¢ Where the consumer notifies the supplier in writing that they wish to cancel the contract, they must be refunded with all monies paid within thirty days.

Taken from here: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...stancesell.htm

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Like I've said, the so-called 'cooling off period' doesn't apply once the services are installed.

It is commonly mistaken for a 'trial period', when it isn't.

The said period legally only applies to installations that are sold by a salesman who calls at the customer's house. It's then 'distance selling'. These are always booked for seven days later anyway as a matter of process.

If a customer rings up, requests the service, then changes their mind the day after install...it's bad luck I'm afraid.

Like I've said earlier, get a company to install some windows then tell them you've changed your mind the day after they have fitted them. Not going to happen.

And please don't tell me I'm posting 'naughties'. Dealing with these sort of requests used to be my job, and the whys and wherefores of the contract were part of our in-depth training for that job.

There is, as I have stated, a different situation if the service does not work properly once installed. The customer is then entitled to reject the service under the sale of goods act. Although the company will always offer to get it fixed, which in many cases the customer is happy with, the customer is under no obligation to accept this.

The cooling off period is FIVE days from the day the customer receives either a second copy of the agreement or a separate copy of cancellation rights. This is applicable to all contracts signed face to face with a NTL representative and is not signed on NTL premises. It does not need to be in the customers home. When the contract is signed in the presence of a NTL representative it would be normal practice for the second copy to be given to the customer at that time.

Having discussed the cooling off period at the start of the contract there still remains the more important question of whether a valid contract exists under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If the contract is not in writing in the prescribed form and signed by both parties and the customer supplied with a copy then NTL are in breach of the Act and the contract would possibly not be enforcable in law.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Neil

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...stancesell.htm

Now I might be being thick (it has happened before. Once) but does that not back up what Scrotnig and I are saying.

The services (which I'm sure the phoneline, TV and internet would be classed as) have a cooling off period of 7 days from the date of agreement. As the installation is never done before 7 days once it is installed the customer has had their cooling off period.

I recently had Sky installed and didn't have to send any signed contracts back. I'd imagine they are using something similar to Ntl contract wise.

[cr80123]

Yes but don't you own the satellite dish and stb with Sky? If so, it isn't a hire agreement.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Now I might be being thick (it has happened before. Once) but does that not back up what Scrotnig and I are saying.

The services (which I'm sure the phoneline, TV and internet would be classed as) have a cooling off period of 7 days from the date of agreement. As the installation is never done before 7 days once it is installed the customer has had their cooling off period.

I recently had Sky installed and didn't have to send any signed contracts back. I'd imagine they are using something similar to Ntl contract wise.

The contract you sign with NTL is a financial services contract under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 do not apply to agreements made under this act which has its own cooling off period of FIVE days.

If the NTL agreement is a cancellable agreement under the act then it can be cancelled even after installation if that installation is within the five days cooling off period.

Sky contracts are not made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and so different conditions apply. My Sky contract was accompanied by a letter stating that you had to sign and return a copy of the contract. I found the letter but the actual contract is somewhere in the loft but I'm not going up there.

[h3adru5h]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Like I've said, the so-called 'cooling off period' doesn't apply once the services are installed.
.

not trying to be funny about this scrotnig.... but it's my job to know about these things. A cooling off period IS applicable regardless of whether the services have been installed or not. Where are you getting your information from??