UK General Election 2005

Originally Posted by dellwear

You think, an where's the money for that coming from? I've not seen any election pledges, and even if I had I'd prolly not believe it, they're not known for sticking to them.

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do...c.page&tabID=3

It's the fifth plan of action on the right to scrap them. I will be in the first wave of students to be hit with these things, if Labour stay in.

Whether or not tories stick to their policy or not, don't know. But this is a policy I support.
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Originally Posted by Paul

So who will be paying for the tuition then? Where is that extra money going to come from? Maybe the tories have checked down the sides of their collective sofas and found a secret stash of money that no-one knew of?

There's spending money wisely, like the conservatives plan to do, and then there's investing an incredibly large amount of money into everything and getting absolutely nothing out of it, which labour are currently doing. By spending it well, there will be no need for extra money.

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

The Lib Dems want council tax to be replaced by a local income tax. Sounds sensible.

No it doesnn't. Like I said, the poorer will be paying more in tax.

Two left wing parties? Where?!

I did write that in October, when the political landscape was somewhat different. It was at that time Kennedy made his "becoming a party of opposition" speech, and conservatives at an all-time low (which made LibDems look better)

[Alan Waddington]

I'll probably vote conservative this time, since labour appears to be letting public spending get out of control. They started well, but over-promised & don't appear to have the guts to admit that they need to rein back on public spending. Not suprising really with an election in the offing. It really annoys me though when good policy takes second place to electioneering, because it's us workers that are going to have to pay for the mistakes.

[TheBlueRaja]

Originally Posted by punky

No it doesnn't. Like I said, the poorer will be paying more in tax.

How do you work that one out?

[punky]

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

How do you work that one out?

There were a few examples on the show. The people worst affected are people who share a house. The council tax gets divided into 3, but with an income tax, it is multiplied by 3 (if 3 people are in the house). Sometimes the landlord picks it up.

There is a calculator on the Lib Dems' website which will tell you if you pay more or less under their scheme.

Originally Posted by punky

There is a calculator on the Lib Dems' website which will tell you if you pay more or less under their scheme.

Well they had virtually no chance (< 0.1%) of my vote before I saw that, now they have even less chance.

I voted ''Other'', because none of the parties involved in elections in Northern Ireland are represented in the pole.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Well they had virtually no chance (< 0.1%) of my vote before I saw that, now they have even less chance.

I have just looked, and it seems I will be one of the ones better off.

It is just really poor thinking from Lib Dems. They come up with some idea which appeals to their ethics. They test it against one group of people and it (in their eyes) improves them. The don't adequately research to how everyone will fare under the scheme which makes them negligent. Either that or they don't give a monkey's about the poorer voters.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Diamond

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do...c.page&tabID=3

It's the fifth plan of action on the right to scrap them. I will be in the first wave of students to be hit with these things, if Labour stay in.

Whether or not tories stick to their policy or not, don't know. But this is a policy I support..

£21 billion for higher education, scrap tuition fees AND no additional contribution from the tax payer.

That's swayed me................NOT.
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Originally Posted by punky

I have just looked, and it seems I will be one of the ones better off.

Bully for you on a teachers salary and my other half on a modest salary I'll be £69 a year worse off:

Your tax bill would be higher than under Council Tax. You would pay £69 more per year. Many lower income households would benefit.

Originally Posted by dellwear

£21 billion for higher education, scrap tuition fees AND no additional contribution from the tax payer.

That's swayed me................NOT.

But you accept now that conservatives are much more kinder to students?

Originally Posted by punky

No it doesnn't. Like I said, the poorer will be paying more in tax.

That is categorically not true. Income tax reflects earnings and ability to pay, which council tax does not.

The worst taxes for the poor are of course, indirect ones, but they are also the ones which politically are easiest to get away with. We get shock-horror if antone suggests !p on income tax so every bugger is scared to do it. So they reap revenues through NI, petrol, alcohol etc which hits everyone regardless of ability to pay.
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Originally Posted by punky

I have just looked, and it seems I will be one of the ones better off.

It is just really poor thinking from Lib Dems. They come up with some idea which appeals to their ethics. They test it against one group of people and it (in their eyes) improves them. The don't adequately research to how everyone will fare under the scheme which makes them negligent. Either that or they don't give a monkey's about the poorer voters.

The Tories don't give a toss about poorer voters hence the Poll Tax and the tax regime they had which effectively encouraged tax avoidance and, whatever, favoured the wealthy.
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Originally Posted by punky

There were a few examples on the show. The people worst affected are people who share a house. The council tax gets divided into 3, but with an income tax, it is multiplied by 3 (if 3 people are in the house). Sometimes the landlord picks it up.

But, income tax reflects people's ability to pay. Tax has, or shouldn't have, owt to do with how many share a house. TThose three people don't use the NHS etc as much as others?

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

That is categorically not true. Income tax reflects earnings and ability to pay, which council tax does not.

Do you just read random posts, or is there a logic to which you skip.

Poorer people are more likely to share a house as they will be unable to afford to buy one. Renting means they'll either pay no council tax at all (if the landlord pays it), or becomes divided amongst the tennants (which is also what happens if they buy the house jointly). One example on "The Politics Show" were 3 teachers and a nurse sharing a house. The calculator said they'll pay £2000 more a year. £500 each to them is a lot.

If like me, you are lucky to own your house, or live in your parents, and you don't earn much, and your house is nice, then you'll pay less (a lot less in my case) but most everyone else will pay more.

Originally Posted by punky

Do you just read random posts, or is there a logic to which you skip.

Poorer people are more likely to share a house as they will be unable to afford to buy one. Renting means they'll either pay no council tax at all (if the landlord pays it), or becomes divided amongst the tennants (which is also what happens if they buy the house jointly). One example on "The Politics Show" were 3 teachers and a nurse sharing a house. The calculator said they'll pay £2000 more a year. £500 each to them is a lot.

If like me, you are lucky to own your house, or live in your parents, and you don't earn much, and your house is nice, then you'll pay less (a lot less in my case) but most everyone else will pay more.

Fair point. Probably not too much logic to be fair been down the pub watching the football and imbibing alcohol so if I'm making even less sense than usual I do apologise. However, income tax is earning related so the poor - the real poor - will be better off. The rich - the real rich (over 100k p.a) - will be worse off. Those on benefits will pay nothing for example. Which will mean a lot to them.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by nffc

Tories without a doubt. The way Labour treat students is utter vile, and I would love to see that fu*king smug smile wiped off Blair's face.

It's worth noting at this point that the current student loans system was instigated by the Tories, not Labour.


I have to admit, at this point in time, I don't know who I'll be voting for. I trust neither the Tories nor Labour (both, IMO, have lied to the electorate), but the LibDems don't seem to have a chance of winning.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by scastle

It's worth noting at this point that the current student loans system was instigated by the Tories, not Labour.

It should also be noted that the current top up fees were instigated by Labour not the Tories, even though I'm pretty sure Labour said in their manifesto they wouldn't...