NTL Broadband Terms & Conditions Moving House?

[cr80123]

Ok Ian possibly, I think it's a mute point but I can see what you mean. I'd certainly argue against it but maybe that's just because I'm argumentative! I still think ntl cannot enforce their contract on another address unless they explicitally state it.Hopefully someone will put them to the test, unfortunately that's vey unlikely - large companies get away with this because the people who need the money the most can't possibly afford to argue about it.

[h3adru5h]

ok - This is the official line in summary format: -


When siging up for ntl: services you must agree to and abide by the residential terms & conditions of service. To view the terms & conditions online, please visit http://www.home.ntl.com/page/termsresidential. The current process is clear; If you leave your ntl: cabled property to move to a non-ntl: cabled area, within your 12 months contract then -

• You may either take ntl:'s indirect service, ntl:freedom, or
• Pay a penalty fee for the premature termination of services.

The latter would apply if you were leaving the UK etc as ntl:freedom is unavailable outside of the UK. Services can only be cancelled within contract in cases fitting section 20 (cancellation rights) of the terms & conditions.

It's important to point out the ntl: is not the only company to employ this method however it is strongly recommended (and far from unreasonable to expect) that all people read, understand and ask relevant questions prior to installation - and subsequent agreement to the terms & conditions. Once you have agreed to the terms & conditions, you have agreed to receive or become legally liable for services for a period of 12 months from the point of installation.

[cr80123]

Nowhere in those terms and conditions does it mention anything about moving to a non-ntl cabled area. I don't really know how to makes this any clearer, the content of that document is the agreement between ntl and the customer. They can take any official line they like, it doesn't matter one bit, when you sign the contract both parties are agreeing to be legally bound by the terms and conditions, nothing more nothing less. Yes the current process is clear, ntl have neglected (unbelievably) to include any provision in their terms and conditions for a customer moving to a non-cabled area. I would contend you could terminate the contract under clause 20ii as they would have significantly reduced the content of their services (i.e. from having a service to having none at all).

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by cr80123

Nowhere in those terms and conditions does it mention anything about moving to a non-ntl cabled area. I don't really know how to makes this any clearer, the content of that document is the agreement between ntl and the customer. They can take any official line they like, it doesn't matter one bit, when you sign the contract both parties are agreeing to be legally bound by the terms and conditions, nothing more nothing less. Yes the current process is clear, ntl have neglected (unbelievably) to include any provision in their terms and conditions for a customer moving to a non-cabled area. I would contend you could terminate the contract under clause 20ii as they would have significantly reduced the content of their services (i.e. from having a service to having none at all).

Wakey, Wakey. Would you use that clause if you went blind then?

They haven't reduced the content of their service at all, it's still there where you agreed it should be installed. Now if you want to insist on your version of your rights you can ask them to move the equipment at your cost to your new location.

[cr80123]

How would me going blind make ntl significantly reduce the content of their services? Admittedly it would effect my ability to enjoy them, but that isn't mentioned in clause 20ii. People are constantly making foolish anologies without thinking them through.

Haven't ntl employees already confirmed that the agreement is to supply services to the person only, and is not specific to an address?

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by cr80123

How would me going blind make ntl significantly reduce the content of their services? Admittedly it would effect my ability to enjoy them, but that isn't mentioned in clause 20ii. People are constantly making foolish anologies without thinking them through.

Haven't ntl employees already confirmed that the agreement is to supply services to the person only, and is not specific to an address?

Moving away from where the services are supplied also only affects your ability to enjoy them, they are still there at the place you agreed they should be.

The agreement is made with the person but for supply at the point which you agreed to.

Taking your thinking to a logical conclusion you could sue NTL for breach of contract if they didn't provide the services to you on the bus to work and at work when you got there. Get real and wake up to the fact that your argument would not stand up in court.

[cr80123]

No I couldn't sue them for breach of contract for not providing services on the bus or at work because it's a residential service i.e. specific to where I reside. I can sit here all day refuting your foolish anologies, think about them first.

If what you say about the agreement being for supply at only the initial point is correct (and I can find nowhere where it states this perhaps you could point me in the right direction) then anyone moving to a cabled area would need a new 12 month contract and would still be liable for the remainder of the term on the old one. Employees of ntl have categorically stated that this is not the case.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by cr80123

No I couldn't sue them for breach of contract for not providing services on the bus or at work because it's a residential service i.e. specific to where I reside. I can sit here all day refuting your foolish anologies, think about them first.

But the contract is with you, not where you are, so you say. Go on refuting then, here's another. Go stay at a relatives house for the week or two and ask NTL to provide your services at that residential address whilst you are there? Do you think they will or would give you compensation if they didn't? Your views on that? I am stuck here all day and am enjoying the laugh at some of the stupid interpretations of the law.

Originally Posted by cr80123

If what you say about the agreement being for supply at only the initial point is correct (and I can find nowhere where it states this perhaps you could point me in the right direction) then anyone moving to a cabled area would need a new 12 month contract and would still be liable for the remainder of the term on the old one. Employees of ntl have categorically stated that this is not the case.

NTL can choose not to penalise a customer if they so wish but you are quite free to sue them for breach of contract if you wish and if you win have two contracts to pay instead of one.

[cr80123]

Well that's just silly. Obviously I wouldn't expect ntl to provide me with services temporarily at a relative's house. For the purpose of the law, my permanent address would be unchanged. If I was in court and asked to give my address I would have to give my permanent address.

So now you're saying the contract is still valid but ntl cancel it and produce a new contract for the customer to sign, of length 12 months minus the time already spent at the old address?

[ian@huth]

cr80123, have you got a contract with NTL and have you read it?
__________________

Well, the football is nearly ready to start so.

If you have a contract with NTL for the supply of services don't just look at the back of the agrrement. On the front section 1 asks for details about yourself including the Service Address. The contract DOES specify the address where the services are to be provided and as long as NTL can continue to supply services at THAT address then moving house doesn't give you a get out from the contract.

[cr80123]

No they never sent me one when I got TV and telephone. When I got broadband they just sent me a network cable through the post with a book of instructions and a cd. I believe you agree to the terms and conditions when you register online.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by cr80123

No they never sent me one when I got TV and telephone. When I got broadband they just sent me a network cable through the post with a book of instructions and a cd. I believe you agree to the terms and conditions when you register online.

It would appear from posts on here over the years that many times NTL forget to give the customer a contract and check that it is signed and returned. They ought to tighten up their procedures regarding this, it can't be that hard.

[gordk]

Wow seems like my original post started quite a discussion! Some interesting points on both sides, but what would be most preferable would be if I could freeze my account until I return to the UK and get a place sorted (hopefully with NTL service availability). I realise however, at the moment it is a 3 month hold.


I have lived at my rented accommodation for a number of years and assumed it was safe for a fair period in time. The news it was being sold was very sudden and not expected otherwise I definitely would not have signed the contract (which I was led to believe was for 7 months interestingly?) Also lots of people seem to be discussing the cost of NTL to install the broadband - there have been many people living in the place (it is a shared house) who have had NTL connections in the past so I was just provided with a cable, box and cd (which then didnt work as services were down in my area - Leeds for 2 weeks before I was able to install it on my computer and was charged for that period!)

My final resolution so far as I am leaving the UK in April, is to transfer the broadband service to my friend (who currently also lives in the house and hopefully will move to a NTL serviced area). By doing this at least it can get used (although she does not really need it) and can cancel it as soon as the contract runs out in November.

This is not really a resolution and has left me feeling rather cold for NTL who as mentioned previously, I have used for many years and would probably have continued using in the future. However, because I am concerned over the customer relations and obvious non defined terms and conditions in NTLs contract I will not be using their services any more.

I would have assumed if there is no mention under the terms and conditions of terminating the service if moving area then it can be argued for just as much as against. If NTL have changed their policy recently this has not been reflected in the t&c and as the length of the discussion here seems to show it is something that really needs clearing up. I accept what has happened in my case and if I had just decided to move while knowing I was held under a 12 month contract then fine I would accept it even more, but I guess all we can do is learn from our mistakes and DEFINITELY (at least try) not to make them again!
__________________

OK Now After reading the link posted above to the T&C on NTLs homepage I am even more confused -

3. Duration
3.1 For our Starter Pack the minimum period of service is 12 months starting on the date we activate the Services. You can only terminate this Agreement during that minimum period if conditions 19.4 or 20.1 apply otherwise we may charge you a cancellation charge which will be the charges which would have been payable to the end of the minimum period. After the minimum period, either you or us may terminate this Agreement on one month's written notice.

3.2 For all other Services (unless otherwise stated in our Price Lists) the minimum period of service is one month and either you or us may terminate this Agreement to the extent that it relates to such Services on one month's written notice.

"Starter Pack" means our basic telephone and/or TV package or any replacement or variation (whether under the same name or any other name);

So does that mean broadband????
__________________

OK pulling at straws here is the following clause viable or am I in a sinking ship?

27. Unforeseeable Events

Neither party is liable for any breach of this Agreement which is caused by something beyond their reasonable control including Acts of God, fire, lightening, extremely severe weather, flood, a national or local emergency, explosion, war, military operations, civil disorder, damage to the ntl Network, terrorism, vandalism, industrial disputes, or acts of local or central Government or other competent authorities.

[ian@huth]

gordk, if you have lived in the rented property for a number of years don't you have the right to continue living there? What does your lease say? What type of tenancy is it, Rent Act, Assured or assured shorthold?

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

gordk, if you have lived in the rented property for a number of years don't you have the right to continue living there? What does your lease say? What type of tenancy is it, Rent Act, Assured or assured shorthold?

If it is like the majority of private tenants around here (myself included) it will be a standard assured shorthold agreement where you have no rights beyond the end of your current contract.

I can see this being a problem to a lot of people if all the people with buy-to-let mortgages decide to sell up at the end of the current lease to cash-in before the house prices fall.