Being charged for time *after* my contract ended. Can anyone offer hope? - Page 2

scrotnig · 24-02-2005, 11:11

Never seen or never sent? Two very different scenarios.

It's not enough to simply say 'I never received it'. At point of sale you are advised you are agreeing to the contract, a copy of which will be sent. It is then your responsibility to check that contract, therefore, if you don't receive it, you should request a new copy and not allow install to take place until you've seen it.

Once you allow install to take place YOU ARE AGREEING TO THE TERMS whether you have seen them or not.

As ever, I love seeing all the barrack room lawyers in here telling people what the law is. Go test it in court, and come and let us know when you lose. ntl are not stupid and the contracts are pretty watertight if the correct procedures are followed.

24-02-2005, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Never seen or never sent? Two very different scenarios.

It's not enough to simply say 'I never received it'. At point of sale you are advised you are agreeing to the contract, a copy of which will be sent. It is then your responsibility to check that contract, therefore, if you don't receive it, you should request a new copy and not allow install to take place until you've seen it.

Once you allow install to take place YOU ARE AGREEING TO THE TERMS whether you have seen them or not.

As ever, I love seeing all the barrack room lawyers in here telling people what the law is. Go test it in court, and come and let us know when you lose. ntl are not stupid and the contracts are pretty watertight if the correct procedures are followed.

All well and good if the sub actually got a copy of the contract, but having installed for ntl in Belfast for 5 years, posted out copies of contracts are like hens teeth. Wasnt like that when ntl had plenty of Field Sales, but once they ran down the field sales and went pretty much all tele sales contracts virtually disappeared. And as for contracts for students, I cant think of one occasion in three years as a one-man installer that I actually saw a student with a contract.

24-02-2005, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Never seen or never sent? Two very different scenarios.

It's not enough to simply say 'I never received it'. At point of sale you are advised you are agreeing to the contract, a copy of which will be sent. It is then your responsibility to check that contract, therefore, if you don't receive it, you should request a new copy and not allow install to take place until you've seen it.

Once you allow install to take place YOU ARE AGREEING TO THE TERMS whether you have seen them or not.

As ever, I love seeing all the barrack room lawyers in here telling people what the law is. Go test it in court, and come and let us know when you lose. ntl are not stupid and the contracts are pretty watertight if the correct procedures are followed.

All well and good if the sub actually got a copy of the contract, but having installed for ntl in Belfast for 5 years, posted out copies of contracts are like hens teeth. Wasnt like that when ntl had plenty of Field Sales, but once they ran down the field sales and went pretty much all tele sales contracts virtually disappeared. And as for contracts for students, I cant think of one occasion in three years as a one-man installer that I actually saw a student with a contract.

ian@huth · 24-02-2005, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Never seen or never sent? Two very different scenarios.

It's not enough to simply say 'I never received it'. At point of sale you are advised you are agreeing to the contract, a copy of which will be sent. It is then your responsibility to check that contract, therefore, if you don't receive it, you should request a new copy and not allow install to take place until you've seen it.

Once you allow install to take place YOU ARE AGREEING TO THE TERMS whether you have seen them or not.

As ever, I love seeing all the barrack room lawyers in here telling people what the law is. Go test it in court, and come and let us know when you lose. ntl are not stupid and the contracts are pretty watertight if the correct procedures are followed.

Mark, read again post #15 and the scenario that I described. The conversation between the OP and NTL may never have advised that "you are agreeing to the contract, a copy of which will be sent". None of us know what was said during that conversation nor if the nTL agent followed the correct procedure. Once the OP had allowed install to take place they were not agreeing to any terms that they had not seen or had been told about. Only production of a signed copy of the contract by the OP could NTL be sure that they are on firm ground.

The comment about barrack room lawyers assumes that posters have no legal qualifications or expertise in contract law. You have no means of knowing what expertise they may have.

The last sentance of yours sums the situation up quite nicely.

Quote:

ntl are not stupid and the contracts are pretty watertight if the correct procedures are followed.

Chris W · 24-02-2005, 12:34

/ points out that he has studied contract law and will be writing LLB after his name come July

ian@huth · 24-02-2005, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeybreath

/ points out that he has studied contract law and will be writing LLB after his name come July

Good for you MB.

You have to remember though that most court cases are fought with the qualified legal representatives on both sided thinking that they know the law and are right in their interpretation of it. One of them is usually found to be wrong but that in itself does not prove that they were wrong, only that the final decision maker has judged them to be wrong and that decision maker could equally be wrong.

They are only wrong though until such time as someone higher says they are right.

Charles Dickens may have had the right idea when he said the law is an ass.

Going back to the scenario I posted in post #15. If that is all that was said in the ordering phone call and NTL didn't send out a copy of the T&Cs, what contract would exist in Law?

manifest · 24-02-2005, 20:18

Wow - I wasn't expecting this much response! Thanks for the info people.

Here are some more details of the situation:

- I'm almost 100% sure that no written contract was sent out to me and they *definitely* have nothing with my signature.

- When the contract was agreed over the phone, they never mentioned that this was a minimum contract. In fact I emphasised many times that I would only need it for the agreed 9 months. Despite this, I wasn't informed of the cancellation terms nor do I recall being referred to terms & conditions.

- No demand for payment (or any communication from NTL) has reached me until this point in time (for whatever reason).

Are your opinions still divided on this matter? The situation is looking more and more complicated than I imagined - although the complications could (possibly) work out in my benefit by the sounds of it. Although when I briefly spoke to their CS team today they pretty much said that I'm the one in the wrong - but she did say that the disconnections team *may* have a different view.

Anymore recommendations? All your advice is MUCH appreciated - I'm certainly more hopeful after reading your posts.

Thanks,

Chris

manifest · 24-02-2005, 20:30

Also I forgot mention, in answer to someone's questions:

- I have never received re-directed bills so I assume that they have been sent to my old address and ignored by the current occupants (I doubt that they have been using the service but I guess it might be worth checking if it comes down to it).

- I am being charged for 5/6 months of time since I actually left the house.