racism

[Ramrod]

Originally posted by kronas
you dont understand what im trying to tell you is some people come to this country as skilled workers ie doctors nurses etc jobs that people here DONT want to do or there is a skills shortage some want to come to this country and improve there lives as the country they come from has a poor education system or has no work and want to earn a living they are plouging millions back in to this country

But the ones that come here with no skills or education are likely to become part of the black economy and as such be very poorly paid, pay no taxes (thus giving nothing back to the nation) and may well drift into crime to support themselves(thus detracting from the nation) whilst getting handouts.
Come down to Gravesend, Broadstairs, Margate, Thamesmead and see for yourself......
....oh, and try not to get mugged....

[kronas]

Originally posted by Ramrod
But the ones that come here with no skills or education are likely to become part of the black economy and as such be very poorly paid, pay no taxes (thus giving nothing back to the nation) and may well drift into crime to support themselves(thus detracting from the nation) whilst getting handouts.
Come down to Gravesend, Broadstairs, Margate, Thamesmead and see for yourself......
....oh, and try not to get mugged....

im not denying that goes on what i am saying is people dont realise how many millions are being pumped back in to the country by these people i cant find the link to some info if i do i will post it here

[orangebird]

Originally posted by kronas
im not denying that goes on what i am saying is people dont realise how many millions are being pumped back in to the country by these people i cant find the link to some info if i do i will post it here

I smoke - therefore the taxes I pay on my ciggies put millions back into the economy - can I get handouts and free housing too then?

[danielf]

Originally posted by orangebird
I smoke - therefore the taxes I pay on my ciggies put millions back into the economy - can I get handouts and free housing too then?

Aah, but these immigrants putting millions into the economy are not the ones getting handouts and housing. They're the one that work and pay taxes.

[Ramrod]

Originally posted by kronas
im not denying that goes on what i am saying is people dont realise how many millions are being pumped back in to the country by these people i cant find the link to some info if i do i will post it here

I would be really interested to see that link ....'cos I don't believe that we are getting more back from the present wave of legal immigrants than the illegals are costing us in money and social problems.
Especially when it apparently is a 1:9 good:bad ratio

[danielf]

Originally posted by Ramrod
I would be really interested to see that link ....'cos I don't believe that we are getting more back from the present wave of legal immigrants than the illegals are costing us in money and social problems.

Likewise, It would be interesting if you could back that up with a link (that's not just speculative).

Originally posted by kronas
you dont understand what im trying to tell you is some people come to this country as skilled workers ie doctors nurses etc jobs that people here DONT want to do or there is a skills shortage some want to come to this country and improve there lives as the country they come from has a poor education system or has no work and want to earn a living they are plouging millions back in to this country

So theres 100,000 Doctors nurses and people willing to work coming into this country every year?
Why is the NHS in crisis at lack of doctors and nurses?
Why are these so called hard waorkers receiving benefits then?

Yes some of them will come here prepared to work, A lot of the doctors come here at the request of the NHS. But that does not make a majority.

[danielf]

Here is a link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2019385.stm


Obviously, it is a complicated issue, and it depends on how you do your calculatations, but it does say in the article:

'In the UK, Home Office research suggests that immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits.

And the Treasury estimates that the economic growth rate has been boosted by a quarter-point because of immigration'.

"The leading scholar on the subject, Harvard professor George Borjas, argues that unskilled migrants do lower the wages of native workers who are competing with them for jobs like catering, child-care and cleaning.

However, the size of the effect is difficult to calculate, and is partly offset by the gains made by employers who can make higher profits because of the lower wages. "


Well thats alright then isnt it? the poor people looking for work in unskilled tasks, can sleep better knowing although they have no money and no job, the people employing the unskilled workers are making more money.

Isnt that just simply.......patronising?

[danielf]

Originally posted by timewarrior2001

Well thats alright then isnt it? the poor people looking for work in unskilled tasks, can sleep better knowing although they have no money and no job, the people employing the unskilled workers are making more money.

Isnt that just simply.......patronising?

Yes, but that is one of several effects. At the same time there are skilled immigrants as well, who pay a lot more in than they take out, and who might help struggling industries/services. The article does say that the home office estimates immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits. Maybe part of this money could go towards education for British people?

[basa]

Originally posted by danielf
Here is a link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2019385.stm


Obviously, it is a complicated issue, and it depends on how you do your calculatations, but it does say in the article:

'In the UK, Home Office research suggests that immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits.

And the Treasury estimates that the economic growth rate has been boosted by a quarter-point because of immigration'.

Ah but for which year are these 'figures' ?? Statistics like these are usually bout two years or more out of date...and a lot of immigration has taken place in recent years !

Also don't forget these are Govt figures which are usually 'massaged' to err on the side of looking good (or not as bad) for the Govt. !!

Originally posted by danielf
Yes, but that is one of several effects. At the same time there are skilled immigrants as well, who pay a lot more in than they take out, and who might help struggling industries/services. The article does say that the home office estimates immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits. Maybe part of this money could go towards education for British people?

The problem with education is simply some people dont want to do any more than they have to, we need people that will do low skilled jobs, such as working in factories.
Not everyone has the aptitude to be a skilled craftsman, a tradesman, a doctor etc etc what do they do? simply sit and live on handouts while immigrants take jobs they are capable of doing?
And whilst we still have serious unemployment we should not be adding insult to injury to those who for educational reasons cannot obtain a job paying them £20 - £30 grand a year.

[Ramrod]

Originally posted by danielf
Here is a link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2019385.stm


Obviously, it is a complicated issue, and it depends on how you do your calculatations, but it does say in the article:

'In the UK, Home Office research suggests that immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits.

And the Treasury estimates that the economic growth rate has been boosted by a quarter-point because of immigration'.

Good link but I personally take the figures (especially the British gov ones) with a pinch of salt (you know how they lie)
If it is true then you have to wonder how much better off this country would be if we got rid of the illegals and just kept the legals who are paying taxes.
another thought......dosn't tax go to central govornment while a large part of the cost of supporting the immigrants comes from local government-council tax (thus depriving local people)?

[danielf]

Originally posted by basa
Ah but for which year are these 'figures' ?? Statistics like these are usually bout two years or more out of date...and a lot of immigration has taken place in recent years !

Also don't forget these are Govt figures which are usually 'massaged' to err on the side of looking good (or not as bad) for the Govt. !!

Yes, a lot of immigration has taken place, but some of these immigrants will be paying in as well.

Maybe these data paint a rosy picture, but I am coming up with some data of a somewhat trustworthy source. That beats arguing over gut feelings.
If you can find other statistics (preferably not taken from the BNP site), please do...

[danielf]

Originally posted by Ramrod
Good link but I personally take the figures (especially the British gov ones) with a pinch of salt (you know how they lie)
If it is true then you have to wonder how much better off this country would be if we got rid of the illegals and just kept the legals who are paying taxes.

There's just no pleasing you is there

Originally posted by Ramrod
another thought......dosn't tax go to central govornment while a large part of the cost of supporting the immigrants comes from local government-council tax (thus depriving local people)?

Well, if that's true,I'm sure there's ways to channnel this money back to local people. Think about NHS, education, public transport. At the end of the day it is money, whatever the source.