*ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by bilal

i personally think that if they want to introduce a capped service they should have another service which is uncapped. for example for 2mb £24.99 30gb cap
but for 2mb unlimited £30.00 or something.. (cheaper preferably because then theres no competition between other providers such as ukonline and lots of others who are providing unlimited 2mb for £29.99. .

Maybe they should have an uncapped service, but at a price consistent with the cost of providing and running it which certainly isn't £30 if you average out the usage of all on that service.

Let's get back to reality. An ISP provides an internet service as a service that generates a profit for them, they are not charitable institutions. Would you object to your first suggestion of £24.99 for a 2Mb service capped at 30 Gb per month then a cost per Gb over that at say the cost of that 1 Gb to NTL plus say a 10% profit on top?

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by ProfPete

Bye

I'm sure ntl would much rather not have people who are taking more than their fair share. To lose a few abusers would make the network a far nicer place for the rest of us. You won't be missed.

Sorry, but its the truth, and if you think the grass is greener on the other side, then you'll just end up forcing your next ISP into caps with your abuse.

I would have to say that, whilst I sort of agree with your principle, it's very wrong to say that someone is *automatically* an abuser just because they download a lot. Quite a few are, but by no means all. Some people just have high needs.

[ProfPete]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Would you object to your first suggestion of £24.99 for a 2Mb service capped at 30 Gb per month then a cost per Gb over that at say the cost of that 1 Gb to NTL plus say a 10% profit on top?

Sounds like Metered BB

Though I suspect it will be closer to £2 per GB.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by ProfPete

Sounds like Metered BB

Though I suspect it will be closer to £2 per GB.

Who knows? The point that I am trying to make is that ISPs are not charitable institutions and need to charge at least what the service is costing them to provide. Some users seem to think that £2 to £5 extra covers the cost of whatever they want to use, it nowhere near covers the cost of what some customers use. Can any user object to paying just a little over cost price?

[Hans Gruber]

Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.

That's one of the problems when users are complaining about speeds, caps and what other ISPs are doing. They have no idea of what costs are involved and whether a particular service is profitable or not. They assume that because one ISP can provide a cheap service that anyone charging more is making obscene profits. They never think that the cheap ISP may be selling way below cost to buy market share. NTL have done and still are doing a lot of upgrades to enable them to offer the forthcoming services. How much do you think all that has cost?

[etccarmageddon]

the metered broadband model appears to be the way things are heading (for some ISPs) - plusnet are talking about an ADSL product which will give you the max speed possible on your line (upto 8mb) with costs per GB after you exceed 30gb per month. I think the price was around £22 for your initial monthly cost.

Then there are other ISPs such as ukonline which are going down the route of 'unlimited' GB with a high speed upto 8mb but for £40 a month.

So if you dont lke NTL's offering it looks like there will be an ADSL product alternative for all tastes. Assuming you can get ADSL!

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

That's one of the problems when users are complaining about speeds, caps and what other ISPs are doing. They have no idea of what costs are involved and whether a particular service is profitable or not. They assume that because one ISP can provide a cheap service that anyone charging more is making obscene profits. They never think that the cheap ISP may be selling way below cost to buy market share. NTL have done and still are doing a lot of upgrades to enable them to offer the forthcoming services. How much do you think all that has cost?

Don't tell me you don't believe they will be making an obscene profit on that tarif. 3gb bandwidth must cost NTL well under £1-2 at the bulk they buy it in.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Don't tell me you don't believe they will be making an obscene profit on that tarif. 3gb bandwidth must cost NTL well under £1-2 at the bulk they buy it in.

Do you seriously believe ntl are making obscene profits?

They aren't making any profits at all.

And quite apart from that, you have to factor other costs in like labour, overheads, etc.

You're not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit? Because business isn't that simple.
__________________

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.

Why don't you write to Simon Duffy and tell HIM how much profit he 'must be making'?

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Do you seriously believe ntl are making obscene profits?

They aren't making any profits at all.

And quite apart from that, you have to factor other costs in like labour, overheads, etc.

You're not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit? Because business isn't that simple.

Yes I do seriously believe that they make obscene profits from that tarif (I did just post that didn't I?).

And, no, I'm not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit.

If they can't make a profit from the 1gb service they really shouldn't still be in business.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Yes I do seriously believe that they make obscene profits from that tarif (I did just post that didn't I?).

And, no, I'm not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit.

If they can't make a profit from the 1gb service they really shouldn't still be in business.

ntl, in common with many other service providers, doesn't make a profit, obscene or otherwise.

I daresay that if you examine a particular product in isolation, there may be a paper profit out of it. But this has to be offset against parts of the business that make a loss.

[purenuman]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.

Maybe they will...................

After paying off all their debts............ 1Q of 2073

[martikus]

anyway as i said before in a previous posting. I hope that it will stay as a monthly download limit. If it is capped at 1gb per day that won't allow much room for gamers who play beta's or download from fileplanet as they can be way over 1gb each. I love the service i get from NTL i'm on the 1.5mb and look forward to the new speed but i must admit i'm praying for aa monthly allowance rather than daily as i think this would apeall to more consumers eg gamers that the higher speeds like the 1.5-3mg line is marketed at. please let NTL come out with an official statement soon confirming what the hell is officially gonna happen!!!!!!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by martikus

anyway as i said before in a previous posting. I hope that it will stay as a monthly download limit. If it is capped at 1gb per day that won't allow much room for gamers who play beta's or download from fileplanet as they can be way over 1gb each. I love the service i get from NTL i'm on the 1.5mb and look forward to the new speed but i must admit i'm praying for aa monthly allowance rather than daily as i think this would apeall to more consumers eg gamers that the higher speeds like the 1.5-3mg line is marketed at. please let NTL come out with an official statement soon confirming what the hell is officially gonna happen!!!!!!

I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data!

"I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros"

How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month!

I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!"

I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.

And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.

@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc.

to the site btw.

I have to say that I also hope the cap is per month rather than per day. I use well under 10GB in a month, but if I'm downloading something from MSDN, I could easily go over 1GB in a particular day. Hopefully, we'll get a definitive answer in the not too far distant future.