*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[PC_Arcade]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Heavy users have far more than 1Gb a day usage

You're not wrong, I've been trying to download the recommended

Originally Posted by the AUP

100 large software programs

and as they all come on cd thats ~63Gb a DAY!! I can't do it though, the connection just isn't fast enough, hopefully the move to a 3gb line will enable me finally achieve it

and will be the first to leave if restrictions lead to action.

Yep, and good riddance to NTL, there are plenty of unmetered BB providers, if NTL insist on only comparing themselves to the worst of the ADSL providers (BT) then they are doomed to a number of long standing customers leaving and taking ALL their services with them (in my case ~£70 per month)

The 1 Gb a day soft cap referred to is only a reiteration of the current AUP usage guideline. NTL may start to send out letters when the new speeds are implemented if a customers usage is consistently over the guideline. Caps are only introduced if customers won't voluntarily abide by guidelines which ensure customers stay within the parameters of the pricing/usage model on which the service is based.

It'll be interesting to see what they actually end up doing, and with more and more people increasingly fed up with their ISP's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4270487.stm) competion will only increase. Hopefully to the benefit of ALL users, who might finally be offered a CHOICE

Originally Posted by PC_Arcade

Yep, and good riddance to NTL, there are plenty of unmetered BB providers, if NTL insist on only comparing themselves to the worst of the ADSL providers (BT) then they are doomed to a number of long standing customers leaving and taking ALL their services with them (in my case ~£70 per month)

Let me look at this from the other direction what if a heavy user is costing NTL say £200 a month in external bandwidth cost's they still win.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Let me look at this from the other direction what if a heavy user is costing NTL say £200 a month in external bandwidth cost's they still win.

Worse still, if there are several very heavy users on the same UBR it could mean NTL having to spend thousands of pounds in upgrading to ensure others don't suffer.

[BIGZIPZ]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Let me look at this from the other direction what if a heavy user is costing NTL say £200 a month in external bandwidth cost's they still win.

That would have to be thousands of GB of bandwidth a month surely? If UKONLINE can offer 500GB for around the same money as NTL's pathetic 30GB limit, surely the cost of bandwidth is not as high as we think.

[Kevin]

Thats a fair point...

[Chrysalis]

Cost of bandwidth isnt that high its been exaggerated, and I think a ubr upgrade is something that lasts for months or years so the cost would be spread out.

Speed limits on the road are there for safety reasons there is no danger in downloading files fast so how can you compare

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by BIGZIPZ

That would have to be thousands of GB of bandwidth a month surely? If UKONLINE can offer 500GB for around the same money as NTL's pathetic 30GB limit, surely the cost of bandwidth is not as high as we think.

Work out what the minimum cost of 500Gb will be using the wholesale price of BT from the following article.

It is important to understand that the wholesale cost for Broadband is
made up of £8.40 (ex VAT) per month per customer for the local loop
component and £31,130 (ex VAT) per month per 155Mb segment of a 622Mb
central pipe (BT broadband network transit).

taken from http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1101830040.htm

[Kevin]

ukonline are not using BT's equipment tho, the 8mb service is using their own LLU equipment...so how come they can offer 500gb to NTL's 30 ?

[Chrysalis]

ianututh ukonline dont buy traffic from BT wholesale and neither does NTL so thats a useless article.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Cost of bandwidth isnt that high its been exaggerated, and I think a ubr upgrade is something that lasts for months or years so the cost would be spread out.

Speed limits on the road are there for safety reasons there is no danger in downloading files fast so how can you compare

As you have mentioned cars, a new car will last for years so the cost will be spread out but can most people go out and get one today or do they have to wait until they can afford one? Wouldn't you rather NTL spent its cash wisely to benefit the majority of customers rather than having to spend it outwith their budgets because a minority of customers want to get far more than they are paying for.
__________________

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

ianututh ukonline dont buy traffic from BT wholesale and neither does NTL so thats a useless article.

And you know that for a fact? Even if what you say is 100% the case then the quote is still an indication of pricing.

[PC_Arcade]

Wouldn't you rather NTL spent its cash wisely to benefit the majority of customers rather than having to spend it outwith their budgets because a minority of customers want to get far more than they are paying for.

I don't think that would be argued, the question is why some ISPs are able to offer "sensible" (ie larger) caps on higher speeds and STILL have to pay BT their share (internal bandwidth) when NTL who own their network seem to be unable to provide either the speed or the volume usage, even though theoretically it would cost them less.

[Chrysalis]

Exactly my point pc arcade, the bandwidth should be cheaper for NTL since they own their own network their is no middleman so to speak, BT wholesale provides bandwidth for ipstream and datastream isp's, Look at what Bulldog offer on LLU prices out of this world made possible by LLU effectively bypassing BT Wholesale, Easynet have been doing it on business for years and are now branching out to the residental market with ukonline, it is quite possible easynet customers are subsidising ukonline customers but as long as easynet customers dont suffer a reduced service easynet have got this business plan spot on.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by PC_Arcade

I don't think that would be argued, the question is why some ISPs are able to offer "sensible" (ie larger) caps on higher speeds and STILL have to pay BT their share (internal bandwidth) when NTL who own their network seem to be unable to provide either the speed or the volume usage, even though theoretically it would cost them less.

Unless you take into account that ntl also have to pay for the maintenance of their own networks too.....

[PC_Arcade]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Unless you take into account that ntl also have to pay for the maintenance of their own networks too.....

Unlike BT then and Bulldog and UKonline who are now unbundling from BT and providing their own infrastructure, how EXACTLY does that make me a dunce ??

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how NTL's speed nor volumes can be justified in this day and age. At the end of the day as a CUSTOMER, I couldn't care less about NTL, BT or any other company having to pay out for x,y and z. I want the best service I can get for the best price, NTL are basically carrying on like there are only 2 ISP's in the country and yes they do offer a better deal than BT. But so do the other 50 or so ISPs who ALSO offer a better deal than NTL.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by PC_Arcade

Unlike BT then and Bulldog and UKonline who are now unbundling from BT and providing their own infrastructure, how EXACTLY does that make me a dunce ?? :roll:

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how NTL's speed nor volumes can be justified in this day and age. At the end of the day as a CUSTOMER, I couldn't care less about NTL, BT or any other company having to pay out for x,y and z. I want the best service I can get for the best price, NTL are basically carrying on like there are only 2 ISP's in the country and yes they do offer a better deal than BT. But so do the other 50 or so ISPs who ALSO offer a better deal than NTL.

You're right. I'm sorry. 3meg is a disgustingly slow speed. How am I supposed to send emails and internet shop on such a poor speed?