lost smartcard....and

[gooner4life]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I am not trying to rubbish your post in any way and accept that you have told us the way that NTL do things. I apologise if I have caused you offence, Also, as gooner4life says, if that is the way NTL want to do things then they are free to do so.

My grouse is that on the surface it would appear that NTL could do the same as Sky if they so wished and thereby avoid tying an engineer up with a job that isn't really needed. He could be better employed fixing another customers problem which does need an eengineer visit. Is there any technical reason why they cannot issue a new card and post it to the customer?

It is down to the Nagra provisioning system being a royal pain, and also a security issue, back in the days of Analogue when lots of people had Jerrold access they could enable every single channel and it would never show up on an audit or on any billing systems so fraud was rife, these days a select few people in the OSS team and the DMC have access to the Nagra system and they are busy enough as it is working on far more important things believe it or not.

Also without being able to say how Sky's system works I would hazard a guess that they have 1 system for there entire subscriber base, NTL have a mismash of different billing and provisioning systems, not to mention 2 entirely different networks, sky would have likely had the card provisioning automatically update the billing side where as NTL do not have this luxury until Harmony is completed.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by gooner4life

It is down to the Nagra provisioning system being a royal pain, and also a security issue, back in the days of Analogue when lots of people had Jerrold access they could enable every single channel and it would never show up on an audit or on any billing systems so fraud was rife, these days a select few people in the OSS team and the DMC have access to the Nagra system and they are busy enough as it is working on far more important things believe it or not.

Also without being able to say how Sky's system works I would hazard a guess that they have 1 system for there entire subscriber base, NTL have a mismash of different billing and provisioning systems, not to mention 2 entirely different networks, sky would have likely had the card provisioning automatically update the billing side where as NTL do not have this luxury until Harmony is completed.

Thanks for the explanation. You must admit though that Customers perception of NTL can be tainted by little things like this that appear simple to the uninformed. Can you imagine all those customers who are, or have been, sitting there waiting for an engineers visit to sort out their problem reading that their wait could have been shorter if engineers were not doing jobs like this. Even with the given answer, a new card will still have to be issued for the STB unless it is to be scrapped so these very busy people will still have to do it. To say that the NTL staff concerned have far more important things to do would have been better unsaid if a customer thinks that this is increasing his wait time. RThe customers service, or lack of it, is the most important thing for him.

[gooner4life]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Thanks for the explanation. You must admit though that Customers perception of NTL can be tainted by little things like this that appear simple to the uninformed. Can you imagine all those customers who are, or have been, sitting there waiting for an engineers visit to sort out their problem reading that their wait could have been shorter if engineers were not doing jobs like this. Even with the given answer, a new card will still have to be issued for the STB unless it is to be scrapped so these very busy people will still have to do it. To say that the NTL staff concerned have far more important things to do would have been better unsaid if a customer thinks that this is increasing his wait time. RThe customers service, or lack of it, is the most important thing for him.

The Smartcards and STB's are already paired in the stores though, the actual pairing is done by the stores its the re-provisioning of a different card with an old box that would take the DMC engineers time that they dont have.

With a new box and card the provisioning would be done by billing when the STB receives a hit with an instruction of what channels to decode.

Surely that's the whole point in providing the customer with a new box/card pair, then the old box can have a new card generated at leisure?

[gooner4life]

Originally Posted by JohnHorb

Surely that's the whole point in providing the customer with a new box/card pair, then the old box can have a new card generated at leisure?

Precisely.

[ian@huth]

I don't know, the story seems to be changing

The new card may be able to be generated at leisure but it still takes an engineers time and associated vehicle costs to do the box swap and who ends up paying for this. My priorities, and customers, would seem to be different to NTLs so we had better leave it at that.

[d0pey]

When boxes are reconditioned when returned to stores they do not get a new smart card. When you get an old 1000/2000 series box it frequently has the old C&W smart cards in them.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I don't know, the story seems to be changing

The new card may be able to be generated at leisure but it still takes an engineers time and associated vehicle costs to do the box swap and who ends up paying for this. My priorities, and customers, would seem to be different to NTLs so we had better leave it at that.

But this is what engineers do, drive around areas of the country swapping boxes and fixing problems. Those that manage the security of these cards and what box they are attached to are i guess not customer facing and work to different priorities.
Is the issue here money. Whist I sympathise with the OP (i occasionally chase my 2 yr old around the house while he has a smart card in his hand - telling him he won't be able to watch TV until he gives it back often works!). It is the OPs fault that this has occurred and not a fault of NTL so NTL charging a service fee is reasonable IMHO, then it is just down to what they do with that fee, they can either get a team that does not work in a customer orientated process to do a one off job (which eventually becomes so many one off jobs that a person needs to be hired into the team for this problem, yet they probably won't see the £25 each time this occurs (more cost to the team - no revenue). Or they can get the customer facing CSRs and Faults to box swap. The biggest difference for the customer is that they need to wait in for a engineer rather than wait for a card in the post.