NTL PVR †“ anything on horizon?

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by Tristan

3/LLU is Option 3 Local Loop Unbundling. As I understand it, this is where a third party installs equipment in a BT exchange in order to provide TV-over-DSL facilities (as Homechoice do in London). I might be wrong though.

That is one thing they can do - technically it just means that another company can install equipment in BT exchanges and that the BT customers can then choose to have their copper wire plugged into that company's hardware instead of BT. Therefore that company would have to offer a standard phone line as well as DSL, etc..

NTL are exploring using this as a way of getting more direct customers (not NTL:Freedom which runs over the existing BT hardware) without having to lay new cables.

[seaneeboy]

Hi Bobsta - Welcome to cableforum!

As most of the debate so far is whether an NTL PVR Will be released at all, such details are a wee bit far off at the moment


Mods - sorry for slight OT-ness here...

NTL Only broadcast in stereo, not 5.1. You can get a scart plug that splits out the sound so you can pipe it into a cinema system, which works pretty well for me...

Originally Posted by Rillington

Maybe not but we shall see.

I think you are right about local loop unbundling. BT was forced to open up the local loop and I guess ntl/TW will have to also.

NTL and Telewest will not have to open up their networks to third parties. BT is a special case, it was built and maintained with taxpayers' money and BT is still close to being a monopoly, so forcing it to grant other companies access to its wires is good for competition. NTL and Telewest own networks built with private cash and have the right not to have that investment undermined by other companies coming in an undercutting them. Besides, anyone who uses their service always has the option of choosing BT instead.

When NTL talks about LLU, they are talking about putting their kit into BT exchanges, not other companies putting kit onto the NTL network.

[sherer]

depending on the free content of VOD we might not have such a great need for a PVR.. if we can get stuff like BBC and ITV stuff for free anytime we want when we miss it would we really need a PVR as much as we do at the moment.. i think NTL are concentrating on that and the BB upgrades for the mo.. maybe if \ when they merge with telewest and bring the networks into line, which could take years, we will start to see PVR on the ntl network

[bobsta]

Thanks for the welcome and advice Seaneeboy.

Yeah, I've seen those Scart splitter cables. Maplin.co.uk sells a box which takes RGB SCART input and outputs separate S-Video, Composite video and stereo audio - that would solve my problem for £35!

Personally, I'm not keen on the idea of VoD. If it requires a payment for each time you watch something it would cost a fortune to rewatch favourite episodes of a show. I would much sooner have a nice PVR and be able to rewatch for free as many times as I like.

[rdhw]

Originally Posted by bobsta

Does anyone know if this box will support digital audio out (either optical or coax) and S-Video out? Also, will it have HDMI / Component video out?

Sure I can get RGB vidro via SCART direct to tv, but I want to add 5.1 home cinema receiver and don't want to be stuck with Composite video signal as my current Samsung 2100 offers!

No-one knows for sure, as the specs of any PVR have not been announced.

Speaking for myself, I would not expect it to support HDMI: just a bit too cutting edge for the 2005 PVR market I suspect.

I would not expect it to support Component Video out, as that is rare in Europe, where RGB holds sway. I would expect RGB to be supported through a SCART socket.

Are you really saying that your cinema receiver does not support RGB inputs? If that is the case, you might be able to find an RGB-to-Component converter on the market somewhere.

[Andy C]

If any PVR we may see on the ntl network in the future was built to handle HDTV, then I would expect it to have HDMI.


Andy.

[Invicta59]

Originally Posted by rdhw

I would not expect it to support Component Video out, as that is rare in Europe, where RGB holds sway.

Are you really saying that your cinema receiver does not support RGB inputs? If that is the case, you might be able to find an RGB-to-Component converter on the market somewhere.

The idea of component,as I understand it, is to provide a digital signal from source to monitor. RGB to component adapters, being an analogue to digital convertor, surely, only provide as good a signal as you'd get from RGB anyway, just piped down a different cable. End result - no difference in picture quality. Component video is used on pretty nearly every LCD/Plasma screen made, so how it's rare in Europe I don't know I certainly want the best picture quality on my TV, and if the PVR has Component and 5.1 sound output I'll have it. Other than that, well, it won't be worth having if I still have to watch a second rate picture with third rate sound

Fingers crossed eh?

[absthechatter]

Originally Posted by Invicta59

The idea of component,as I understand it, is to provide a digital signal from source to monitor. RGB to component adapters, being an analogue to digital convertor, surely, only provide as good a signal as you'd get from RGB anyway, just piped down a different cable. End result - no difference in picture quality. Component video is used on pretty nearly every LCD/Plasma screen made, so how it's rare in Europe I don't know I certainly want the best picture quality on my TV, and if the PVR has Component and 5.1 sound output I'll have it. Other than that, well, it won't be worth having if I still have to watch a second rate picture with third rate sound

Fingers crossed eh?

I think component still transfers an analogue signal - albeit a higher quality than scart. So if you use component you would be converting digital source to analogue and then doing the opposite conversion at the other end to go into digital screen. If you wanted to keep it digital all the way you would have to consider DVI or HDMI cables.

Abs

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by bobsta

Does anyone know if this box will support digital audio out (either optical or coax) and S-Video out? Also, will it have HDMI / Component video out?

Sure I can get RGB vidro via SCART direct to tv, but I want to add 5.1 home cinema receiver and don't want to be stuck with Composite video signal as my current Samsung 2100 offers! This really annoyed when I found out, as did the realisation I can only watch one and record the same channel at any one time!

HDMI - Not likely!, Why would NTL provide a High Definition connection?, there are no HD channels yet, SDI is more likely but I will belive it when I see it!
Optical - The connections are on the back of the PACE di4000 series, but no achall plug was put on the back of the box to cut costs, I *would* PM you a link with instructions on howto add one, but alas you disabled Private Messenging.
5.1 - You do realise that currently NO tv channel broadcasts in 5.1 sound in the UK, on any platform (cable, sky, DTT, etc), execpt for the ODD movie on sky movies, but seing as NTL encode these at a higher bandwith than sky, you will get better picture with NTL on premium channels.
My advice - Stick with the RGB scart and be happy with what you've got .
-Chris

[rdhw]

Originally Posted by Invicta59

The idea of component,as I understand it, is to provide a digital signal from source to monitor.

No, Component Video is another 3-wire analogue format like RGB. Any difference in quality between Component and RGB is marginal. The three Component Video signals are Luminance (Y), the old black-and-white signal, and two colour differences, R-Y, and B-Y. The green signal is recovered by subtraction. Component Video is closer to the video signals coded in DVDs and digital TV, while RGB is closer to the video signals needed for display devices such as CRTs, LCDs, and plasma displays.

For reasons of historical accidents of fate, Component Video as a means of passing 3-wire analogue colour signals between consumer video devices is dominant in North America, while RGB is dominant in Europe, partly because of the introduction of the SCART plugs and sockets by the French.

Component Video standards have been upgraded to accommodate HDTV, but RGB has not. But by the time we in Europe get HDTV, it is possible that all-digital connections such as HDMI will have taken over, so we might never need to convert to Component Video interconnects from RGB.

[Ignition]

Too busy preparing the 100Mbyte service at the moment, as well as other things to be bothering with a humble PVR. After all:

Originally Posted by Tony Glover, Technology (19th Century) Editor, 'The Business', based on the gospel of Keith Monserrat, 'Policy Director', ntl, whose technical knowledge is apparently of a similar state to the volcanically devastated Island of the same name'

The convergence of home entertainment and computing in internet TV is seen by NTL as inevitable and will involve the streaming of movies and other services on to devices that will resemble TVs but have the storage capacity of powerful PCs.

Blimey with all that coming how can you discuss mere PVRs and VOD.. tsk.

(More discussion on that here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=23384

[bobsta]

Hmm.... Ok, point taken on the sound thing. Stereo it is.

simpsonsFAN - thanks for the PM offer, but I have a Samsung 2100, so this Pace advice wouldn't help me.

RGB is an uncompressed analogue signal which carries brightness info for each of the 3 primary colours (and sometimes a Sync signal). rdhw is correct with his post on component video. RGB is (arguably/theoretically) a higher quality signal than component.

My issue is that most home cinema receivers only have video inputs for Composite, S-Video and Component via various combinations of phono and din connector. There is no RGB input via either SCART or phono (Pioneer VSXC402 & 502 are SCART only exceptions).

I want a quality signal after suffering on a crap terrestrial aerial for years. Composite is too dark and fuzzy. This means that as my Samsung 2100 only outputs Composite or RGB via SCART I would have to get a convertor box (with chunky PSU) to convert RGB down to S-Video and plug the S-Video into the Amp. Unless anyone knows of an RGB SCART to Component convertor?

I don't think I've ever seen anything output a Component video signal through a SCART connector.

SCART is FRENCH!!! Surely we should lobby to get it banned straight away?

[Tristan]

So we've got one thread where someone is complaining that his box outputs RGB, and he wants s-video, and another where the box outputs s-video and he wants RGB.

You two should swap!

[bobsta]

Why don't they just provide all 3 standard options like most DVD players do? It's annoying!