*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

<snip>if you not interested then ignore this subject.

Neil can't ingore the subject. He's a Mod. He's also part owner of the site. If anyone does or says anything wrong (or even libellous), he has to take action. Therefore, he needs to know what is going on.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I think its nearer to 500 if you count all the deleted/locked threads.

Actually, I suspect it is nearer 5.. When the big thread (7000+ posts) closed on .com about the cap, I think there were less than ten people criticising the cap, but they actually accounted for the bulk of the posts. Going by the threads I have seen here, I suspect there are more than ten people posting about the cap, but not much more.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Neil

<Devil's Advocate>With respect Ian What you have not mentioned there, is the fact that most people are paying enough for the service level that they signed up for originally (prior to ntl moving the goalposts silently on a Friday night regarding the "cap") </Devil's Advocate>

No customer has ever signed up for the 3Mb and other new speed tiers that are to be introduced. Whether customers are paying enough is something we will never know. We know the price that the new tiers are coming in at but we don't know how profitable these are for NTL. Whilst it is easy to say that some ADSL ISPs provide faster, uncapped or cheaper services, we don't know whether these are profitable for them or whether they are just buying customers at this point in time. Many of the arguments that anti cap customers have are based on the assumption that if another ISP can do something then NTL should be able to do so too. Taking this to the extreme, if Wanadoo decided to buy customers by giving a 2Mb uncapped service for £1 per month, would you think that NTL would be wise to follow suit?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by scastle

Actually, I suspect it is nearer 5.. When the big thread (7000+ posts) closed on .com about the cap, I think there were less than ten people criticising the cap, but they actually accounted for the bulk of the posts. Going by the threads I have seen here, I suspect there are more than ten people posting about the cap, but not much more.

You're maybe right, but haven't thought of the (probably) many who only READ the thread, and evaluate the information they see.
Why waste time/space posting a repeat of what someone else has asked/stated ?
I imagine there are a lot of lurkers, just watching to see which way things swing before making any decisions .... sitting on the fence so to speak ... and if every one of them posted their current thoughts maybe Chrysalis would be nearer the mark as regards the number of posters

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Carth

You're maybe right, but haven't thought of the (probably) many who only READ the thread, and evaluate the information they see.
Why waste time/space posting a repeat of what someone else has asked/stated ?
I imagine there are a lot of lurkers, just watching to see which way things swing before making any decisions .... sitting on the fence so to speak ... and if every one of them posted their current thoughts maybe Chrysalis would be nearer the mark as regards the number of posters

Well, I'll admit I don't monitor these threads constantly, but I can honestly say that going by the line at the bottom that says the number of logged on users viewing the thread, I have never seen more than 6 for a cap thread.

[Chrysalis]

Well obviously I dont know what the actual amount is but it only takes me a few seconds to know 5 is way below the amount, I have seen at least a dozen threads closed made by different posters, the thread gets closed then they dont post again and thats the last we see of them. The people who have speaken up in this thread are generally again and again yes it is only a few of us but there is a lot more with concerns and yes there is the lurkers.

A good example is this new format bill from ntl, to be honest I think its crap all of a sudden 2 or 3 months ago ntl change the bill format, probably less then 1% of customers complained about it, does it mean the other 99% approve of it.

[purenuman]

Originally Posted by Nikko

This thread is a constant source of amusement.

A few die hard protesters post the same old poo in diminishing ever decreasing relevance, and converse ever increasing desperation to make some contrived point.

Do you all conspire on MSN? 'hey I have a new take on the same old crap, hehe this will get them'?

Is it an independent coming together of like minded souls? A secret Geek Clan of 'Well they cut me off for not paying my Bill so lets unite'?

Do all 5 (ish) of you swap revolutionary anti ntl protest content on a secret forum somewhere?

Keep posting. Keep re-iterating your opinions. I for one will never be bored - I had no idea there were so many permutations of typos, mis-spellings, grammatical omissions or syntax failures to be had based on a 3 letter word.

[mrlipring]

Originally Posted by scastle

Well, I'll admit I don't monitor these threads constantly, but I can honestly say that going by the line at the bottom that says the number of logged on users viewing the thread, I have never seen more than 6 for a cap thread.

Well, there's 14 at the moment, but i still don't see what that proves.

OF COURSE there are going to be a vocal few.

Most people won't notice the cap. They use the connection for browsing, a bit of online gaming, and downloading the odd MP3 here and there. 30GB a month is too much for them. 1Mbit/month is too much for them, but the price is right, they get stuff done when they need it without too much of a wait, and everything is fine.

There are those who know about the capping, but don't care. They'll rattle the connection as they did before, and deal with NTL when they start sending letters. Why would they bother posting here?

There are those who know, but intend to switch ISPs, so again, why would they bother posting here?

There are those, however, who don't want to, or can't switch ISPs. 30GB/month for a price ADSL ISPs offer unlimited (>300GB/month, potentially, and trust me, I've approached that on my 1Mbit DSL line) connections for. I appreciate there are different costs involved in providing a DSL service and a Cable service, but really, is a cable connection ten times as expensive to supply as a DSL one? Bearing in mind that a DSL ISP pays BT wholesale a tenner a month, or thereabouts, that leaves about a tenner a month to pay for transfer, admin costs, etc. As i say, i don't know the costs involved in supplying cable internet, but i can't believe it's as much as, or more than, DSL. Either way, look at the comparison in packages between NTL and Telewest. Doesn't add up, does it?

Perhaps if NTL had a more secure network which didn't allow active theft-of-service (passive just doesn't MAKE them money, whereas active LOSES them money) like modem cloning, then we'd be better off, but i can't help but think NTL customers are being ripped off.

I, personally, will be opting for the business package, but what about residential customers? Why should they pay more or less the same as a business, but get a far worse service, both in terms of allowed usage, and telephone support? I called both business and residential customer services yesterday with some queries, and while business support were able to answer my question after a 30 second wait on hold, residential had me on hold for over 5 minutes, then said nobody there could answer and that they'd call me back. 24 hours have passed since. No ringback. I don't envisage myself needing customer services/tech support all that often (never needed it 2 years ago when i was last with NTL, used it once with my last DSL ISP), but it's good to know the option's there. By my calculations, business customers will be allowed to do over 400GB a month on the 3mbit package. That's 370GB more for 3 quid a month, and a 90 quid setup fee, assuming with the speed doubling the prices will stay the same. How can that be just?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by mrlipring

By my calculations, business customers will be allowed to do over 400GB a month on the 3mbit package. That's 370GB more for 3 quid a month, and a 90 quid setup fee, assuming with the speed doubling the prices will stay the same. How can that be just?

Don't forget the 2 year contract.

[mrlipring]

Originally Posted by Neil

Don't forget the 2 year contract.

ok, so the 90 bucks is spread over 2 years, not one.

Really though, i'm hoping that my business lasts more than 2 years, so it doesn't bother me. If a 2 year contract is the only minus point over the residential package, then it ain't all that bad, is it? My point still stands, residential customers are getting a worse deal, and surely business users don't generally go for the TV package? I'll be working from home, so i'll probably opt for a basic package, but in general, there can't be many businesses who've opted for the tv package, and i'd imagine that that's where NTL really make their money.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by mrlipring

ok, so the 90 bucks is spread over 2 years, not one.

Really though, i'm hoping that my business lasts more than 2 years, so it doesn't bother me. If a 2 year contract is the only minus point over the residential package, then it ain't all that bad, is it? My point still stands, residential customers are getting a worse deal, and surely business users don't generally go for the TV package? I'll be working from home, so i'll probably opt for a basic package, but in general, there can't be many businesses who've opted for the tv package, and i'd imagine that that's where NTL really make their money.

But surely you are going about this the wrong way??

You are griping at the way ntl have done/are doing things, yet you are rewarding them with a further 2 years of your custom....

The only way companies begin to understand their failings is when people vote with their wallets & go to (in this case) ADSL/BT/Sky etc etc.

I certainly wouldn't put money in ntl's pocket if I was in your situation, I would take the easy route of finding a nice reliable/uncapped ADSL provider, with an equally nice 1 month contract, & give them my money.

Hang on.....that's exactly what I did do....

[Hans Gruber]

My main gripe with a 2 year contract is with this ADSL2+ coming any month now, chances are it will cost the same as ADSL and be a hell of a lot faster. 3mbit for £35 suddenly won't sound so appealing, especially as it will, probably, still have a usage cap. OK NTL may upgrade the speeds further to compete, but there's certainly no guarantee of that. It's certainly not a matter of whether or not your 'business' will last 2 years.

[mrlipring]

Why's it my 'business' hans? Why the need for apostrophes?

My point, neil, is that they're screwing residential customers. I'll be a business customer, and at the moment the deal they're doing is as good as i'll get in my location. I can't be sure that ADSL2+ will be rolled out to my exchange in the next 2 years. I'll probably end up getting a cheap as hell DSL connection as well, for backup/halo 2, but for the moment, the NTL business package is as good as i'll get. I was more than happy with the service before, and i have no reason to believe it will be any worse, it's just the cap that would hurt me, and if i opt for a business package that point is negated.

I bet, though, that NTL will see a hell of a lot more "business" (see, hans?) customers popping up once people realise the difference.

Anyway,you can cancel your NTL account within the contract time if you're moving to an area without cable.

If ADSL2+ is to be the same price as ADSL, and faster, and STILL uncapped, then NTL will lose a fair whack of customers, it's true, but i need a connection now, and the business package is a good deal in comparison with DSL. Just wish i'd chosen the property nearer the city, i'd have been able to get 8mbit from ukonline now, but the rent was another 12%, which at the moment ain't affordable. 3.5mbit will do us for now

[obvious]

Heh. I've not been posting for the longest time but all this disinformation being smeared around about only 5 or 10 customers being unhappy about usage restrictions needs to be countered.

The Petition Against Capping gathered over 10,000 signatures. Oh wait perhaps the same 5 people just signed it 2000 times each. I dont think so.

[jtwn]

Is ntl going to be made aware of it?

I'm guessing that the potential loss 0.6% of customers (thats if every single one left, which most likely in reality nowhere near a majority of those who signed would) compared to the saved money / loss of heavy users, would not be such a great loss as you think?

[Ignition]

Think comments like:

Are you listening NTL, don't let your stupid, terrorist funding pride destroy you.

You what?

NTL get away with far too much - Appalling customer service for one - They just cannot cap 1Gb - maybe a more sensible amount like 10Gb - at least they still get their cap, and far more customers would be a lot happier.

LMAO 10GB a day are you kidding me?!

I think that limiting our 1.5meg connection to 700k without informing us pushes this issue way past the 1 gig limit.....

Ummmm.

NTL can only get away with this because they know their only true competitor is Blueyonder (and there is nobody who has access to both services)

Umm so they are a competitor how?

at least increase to 5gig

A day?!?

This is serious people. You have got to walk from NTL. or the next bomb that goes off in a crouded school, or the next plane that crashes into a tall building killing thousands is going to be YOUR FAULT. Do you understand? Contracts be damned, you cannot allow this to continue.

Sick b***ard

I've only recently become aware of the fact that you are capping all lines. I think it's disgraceful that you limit connections at all, let alone impose a ridiculous limit across the board. Why pay more for a faster connection that I cannot use for more than an hour or two per day? Time to look into alternate ISPs it seems..

Quite agree, you should be able to download at full pelt all the time, of course what you pay covers it.

No way is my money ending up in Bin Laden's pocket. Bye Bye NTL

Rrright.

I was considering switching to NTL from the expensive BT but now there is no chance since BT does not impose a cap on my service, I pay for unlimited access and get unlimited access!

Heh, oops, 15GB/month on 512k and 30 on 1Mbit on BTB with metering over the excess isn't it?

Goddam, I just found out my £35 a month was being used to buy bombs and guns for dirty terrorists. Screw that, I left and went BT, they may be crap, but at least they are BRITISH!!!

*sigh*

I cancelled my NTL broadband soon as i heard about this cap. Was even more horrified to find out that NTL fund international terrorism. Please people, you are literally giving money to the terrorists. STOP PLEASE.

Who the **** started that ridiculous rumour?

Obvious find me a 10,000 signature petition, without repetition, that isn't signed by morons then I'll be more interested.

Heavy users leaving = more for the rest = better performance and more $$$ for ntl. It's coming whatever, why keep discussing it? I only did this post because that petition's comments are so