Offshoring

Sold down the river springs to mind. You cant go on and on ignoring this like the government appears to think you can. Look what happened to the mining industry, look what happened to manufacturing

http://www.silicon.com/research/spec...9127114,00.htm

[ian@huth]

The government seems to think that offshoring is an advantage to the country. Where will it all end when most jobs are offshored and all the skills at present in this country are lost?

As an aside, I got a telephone call from my bank last night asking if I would participate in a survey on the use of bank branches, telephone banking and internet banking. This call was from an Indian call centre and was the first call from that area that I have had difficulty in understanding the English that the woman was speaking. I wish I could have recorded it as it was quite hilarious. Not understanding the woman properly I started to answer in my original broad Yorkshire voice, "what tha talkin baht lass" and similar. The survey never reached its conclusion.

[Scarlett]

Originally Posted by gary_580

Sold down the river springs to mind. You cant go on and on ignoring this like the government appears to think you can. Look what happened to the mining industry, look what happened to manufacturing

http://www.silicon.com/research/spec...9127114,00.htm

In the short term this is simlpy not going to stop. At the end of the day its all money money money. It will however reverse sooner or later when they realise that the quality will suffer.

I'm not saying that the Indian's are inherently crap but when they offshore'd some of the software at my old place, it was taking 3 months to get an URGENT patch back usually it was 6 months wait for a fix.

But at the end of the day the govenment has to support it because its such a big plus to business (who then pay there taxes here) the joke in this case is the upskilling that's being talked about!

I think you'll find most companies would rather not spend much money on those who are to be 'let go'. Even when you stay in the same company. They're more likely to look at your skills and try to fit you in with your current skill instead of saying we have X jobs for skilled bobbins fitters, does anyone want to be trained up to do it rather than leave ? This has certinaly been the case when I've been through redundancies (admitedly not to outsourcing...Yet)

Originally Posted by gary_580

Sold down the river springs to mind. You cant go on and on ignoring this like the government appears to think you can. Look what happened to the mining industry, look what happened to manufacturing

http://www.silicon.com/research/spec...9127114,00.htm

Thatcher's structural reforms in the 1980s were, in part, based around the idea that developing countries could do heavy industry so much more cheaply than us that it wasn't worth competing, and the UK should therefore look to developing service and high-tech sector employment instead. It's a not-so-sweet irony that some of those service sector jobs are now going the same way. I wonder if we're going to end up in a situation where there are no jobs left for British people to do because there's always a developing economy somewhere that can do it cheaper (although not necessarily better)?

The concentration on the 'bottom line' as the sole performance indicator, and the expectation of continuous growth, is what seems to drive the tendency to outsource labour & to import rather than manufacture.

Unfortunately, successive governments seem too concerned with short term populist strategies, to consider the long term effect that the resultant loss of skills will mean.

To talk of upskilling just adds insult to injury, in my opinion, as had education and training been working properly, there would be no need. This is just another area where companies have cut back to increase profits for the 'fat cats'.

I'm not sure I agree with Scarlett regarding the situation reversing, due to a reduction in quality, I'd like to - I just can't conceive that the bean counters will take any interest in that - and if profits are affected, they will shut up shop & move on to another venture, ruining several peoples lives in the process. We have a factory up here, about to close with the loss of 600 jobs, not because it was making a loss, but because amalgamating production at another plant will make even more profit. Being faced with that kind of cynicism is what makes me lack confidence in any change for the better, within any forseeable timescale

Originally Posted by Chris T

Thatcher's structural reforms in the 1980s were, in part, based around the idea that developing countries could do heavy industry so much more cheaply than us that it wasn't worth competing, and the UK should therefore look to developing service and high-tech sector employment instead. It's a not-so-sweet irony that some of those service sector jobs are now going the same way. I wonder if we're going to end up in a situation where there are no jobs left for British people to do because there's always a developing economy somewhere that can do it cheaper (although not necessarily better)?

There is always going to be someone that can do it cheaper than the UK, it costs more to live in the UK than Vietnam! They only edge the UK can have is level of service and iginuity. Once the Far east and eastern block countries get that sorted we might as well all retire (assuming there is a retirement fund!!)

[danielf]

Originally Posted by gary_580

There is always going to be someone that can do it cheaper than the UK, it costs more to live in the UK than Vietnam! They only edge the UK can have is level of service and iginuity. Once the Far east and eastern block countries get that sorted we might as well all retire (assuming there is a retirement fund!!)

I think the western world will have to invest in education and innovation to keep up. In the long run, I suppose the developing countries will become richer (and more expensive) as well. Also, as the developing nations get richer, they will be looking to acquire more services/goods, which could be good for western economies, provided they can supply these goods/services.

[Escapee]

The thing that really amazes me about all these redundancies and jobs going abroad, is just how difficult it is to find people with the right skills when looking to employ!

Whats happened to all the employable people?

Where have all the engineers gone?

[Derek]

I think in the next few years more and more companies will rely on UK workers as a reason for higher charges.

Much like the current adverts from Nat West (I think) they'll be trumpeting that they are UK based only to try and get custom from people who pay a little bit more for quality.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by homealone

Unfortunately, successive governments seem too concerned with short term populist strategies, to consider the long term effect that the resultant loss of skills will mean.

The electorate are exactly the same though, they want results now and if they don;t see them then they slate the government. Seems to be a bit of a mind set really. Why people feel that policies have to be popular to work is beyond me.

I watched a program on Channel 4 the other night where the conclusion was that to halt global warning (or at lease our carbon emission's) we would need to switch to nuclear power. Many scientists are now coming back to this idea but can you imagine a government announcing this to the public? Even if it was the best thing for the world? No because they fear getting voted out. Look how many people protested over the war in Iraq and fox hunting! Something like a wholesale switch to nuclear power (or the reversal of off shoreing) just isn't going to happen as its not popular enough.

Oh and don't tell me the other party's would be any different because I we all know they wouldn't.
____________

Originally Posted by dezzo

I think in the next few years more and more companies will rely on UK workers as a reason for higher charges.

Much like the current adverts from Nat West (I think) they'll be trumpeting that they are UK based only to try and get custom from people who pay a little bit more for quality.

Well you won't get quality from natwest, UK call centre or not. Their problem isn't their call centres (which used to be model call centres, well at least the one I worked in was) its their processing centres that used to mess stuff up.

On another point re: those adverts, I find it amazing that they tout you can speak with your branch as they were one of the first banks to remove the phone numbers from the phone books and redirect them to call centres!

Originally Posted by dellwear

The electorate are exactly the same though, they want results now and if they don;t see them then they slate the government. Seems to be a bit of a mind set really. Why people feel that policies have to be popular to work is beyond me.

I watched a program on Channel 4 the other night where the conclusion was that to halt global warning (or at lease our carbon emission's) we would need to switch to nuclear power. Many scientists are now coming back to this idea but can you imagine a government announcing this to the public? Even if it was the best thing for the world? No because they fear getting voted out. Look how many people protested over the war in Iraq and fox hunting! Something like a wholesale switch to nuclear power (or the reversal of off shoreing) just isn't going to happen as its not popular enough.

Oh and don't tell me the other party's would be any different because I we all know they wouldn't.

I never thought I'd entertain the idea of supporting a move back to nuclear power, but let's face it, in terms of atmospheric emissions it is a clean energy source. Yes, it produces highly toxic waste but that can be managed. Our technology, in managing the power stations themselves and their effluent, has improved drastically since the 1950s. We have a vast wind and wave energy resource in the British Isles but the infrastructure required in order to harness enough of it to take the place of just one or two conventional (coal/gas/nuke) power stations will be absolutely immense.

Hang on, I completely forgot this is a thread about outsourcing ...

Originally Posted by dellwear

<some snipping>

The electorate are exactly the same though, they want results now and if they don;t see them then they slate the government. Seems to be a bit of a mind set really. Why people feel that policies have to be popular to work is beyond me.

sadly I fear you are right, dellwear, people want jam today and are not prepared to wait, even if the long term solution would be preferable.

- good point about the nuclear power, as an example, too, but I'll resist Chris' attempt to drag the thread of topic, and not discuss it any further

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by gary_580

There is always going to be someone that can do it cheaper than the UK, it costs more to live in the UK than Vietnam! They only edge the UK can have is level of service and iginuity. Once the Far east and eastern block countries get that sorted we might as well all retire (assuming there is a retirement fund!!)

One of the reasons that the UK is expensive is that we were too slow to move into the twentieth century. Unions concentrated on preserving jobs to such an extent that we were paying well over the odds for many products and demanded higher and higher wages to pay for them. Being born and brought up in West Yorkshire I saw the demise of the textile industries there that was largely brought about by unions protecting the conditions of their members to the extent that unit costs of producing goods were several times the cost of importing the same items from developed countries, not third world sweatshops. A spinning plant at a local carpet manufacturing company where many of my family worked employed 126 people whereas a similar plant ten times the size in America employed 66. I worked for several years with the newspaper industry and it was unbelievable how overmanned and behind the times this was until Eddie Shah came on the scene.