Now the shoe is on the other foot.... - Page 3

kronas · 13-01-2005, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewJames

I for one speak my mind when I say.

We have bowed to there rules and allowed them to do there cutural things for ages, we aint sayins its wrong, but whenever we ask a asian community to do stuff its "your being racist" thrown in our faces and we can not go back on them because a massive do is made over everything. Yes before people ask I do have alot of Asian friends, and I get on well with them, because they are making something of there lives here.

It is about time the communities got together and BOTH SIDES draw there lines on what to publically celebrate or what to keep private.

whilst i agree that asian 'intergration' is questionable at times it does not excuse the fact that this is a celebration of a particular ethnic minority in the UK, its not about telling non-muslims to do this or behave like this but its about being allowed to celebrate eid (like christmas to non muslims)

there was a program which i saw on channel 4 a few days ago. i didnt quite catch it all but it mentioned how Islamiphobia is being misused in the asian community, and brabnding people racists at every oppertunity, but the sam ecan be said for racism against black people, so it evens itself out.

i dont see a problem with this at all

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:38

Not much of a chance, I agree this Christmas they did take the mickey with what went on.

I just dont understand why we have to have this rift.. Surely both sides could sit down in a council meeting across the country and come to agreement of both parties on cultural celebrations.

We are both intelligent cultures, capable of a reasonable decision, and able to listen and discuss various issues between cultures.

Or are we barbaric and want everything our own way, and going to end up in another bickering war of racist words.

**Chris** · 13-01-2005, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewJames

our dignity as a nation. Because we do soo much for them, and yet we have to change our way of life to suit there religion, all this during Xmas about shops banning Xmas stuff was to suit them.

Its about time it went 50/50, then the average Joe Soap, can know that we are getting into a fair nation.

I for one am sick of English doing this English doing that...and Asians doing sweet Jack all.

its about time they came down to earth, and realised something called playing it fair, and equality..

I'm sorry, are you saying we lose national dignity by allowing someone to wave the flag of their choice during a religious celebration they have chosen to take part in? If so, you have a pretty flimsy idea about national dignity. Personally I believe there is great dignity in a nation that allows each person to follow his own path yet, by and large, without race-hate riots breaking out all over the place all the time.

And going 50/50 on what? If we give up this, they should give up that? Why does anyone have to give up anything? I'm also puzzled about what the English are doing that 'the Asians' are not ... are they failing to pay their taxes, or refusing to acknowledge the law, or what?

You talk about fair play and equality, but I suspect what you mean is that you would prefer to treat 'them' as equal only once they decide to follow the white man's path.

nffc · 13-01-2005, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

whilst i agree that asian 'intergration' is questionable at times it does not excuse the fact that this is a celebration of a particular ethnic minority in the UK, its not about telling non-muslims to do this or behave like this but its about being allowed to celebrate eid (like christmas to non muslims)

So do you agree that in Iraq, Saudi Arabia a Christian minority should be able to wave the England flag, get lashed and celebrate Christmas?

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:40

I am part of the Wiccan community, and hold no grudge over the English Celebrations, in fact I enjoy them, I enjoy seeing happy familes, seeing children happy with new toys and the excitment.

As for the East countries..well thats another matter.....i dont trust them personally as far as I can spit...

Stuart · 13-01-2005, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

Ridiculous. They should not be banned from waving flags, and nor should anyone else. It's all very well seeing this as equality at last, but if it ultimately serves to further justify the banning of the Union flag, or St George's cross, then what have we gained in the end?

Agreed. At best, all banning flags does is incite tension.

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

I'm sorry, are you saying we lose national dignity by allowing someone to wave the flag of their choice during a religious celebration they have chosen to take part in? If so, you have a pretty flimsy idea about national dignity. Personally I believe there is great dignity in a nation that allows each person to follow his own path yet, by and large, without race-hate riots breaking out all over the place all the time.

And going 50/50 on what? If we give up this, they should give up that? Why does anyone have to give up anything? I'm also puzzled about what the English are doing that 'the Asians' are not ... are they failing to pay their taxes, or refusing to acknowledge the law, or what?

You talk about fair play and equality, but I suspect what you mean is that you would prefer to treat 'them' as equal only once they decide to follow the white man's path.

or just have a war to settle it then??

The line will be drawn sometime, and unless both sides discuss this sort of thing out, racial issues and stupid issues could cause civil problems.

kronas · 13-01-2005, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Yeah but the official religion of this country is Christianity.

yes and this country is also supposed to be 'multi cultural'

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

They knew that when they emigrated, they know we celebrate Christmas (did they have their holiday and ****up at christmas, think they did

) so why impose their customs on the rest of us.

who is imposing what exactly ? flying a flag and having private celebrations (food etc) is imposing ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

If the boot was on the other foot, if we all emigrated to Saudi Arabia or somewhere and the women wore the dresses, and we carried on our customs, drinking, flag waving, wanting time off at Christmas, we'd be punished.

bad choice choosing saudi arabia that is a Islamic strict state where the rules are not democratically justified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Maybe stopping them flying their flag is wrong. But chances are that would be what British people would get in other countries.

thats open to debate, i have not seen evidence to suggest that to be happening.

**Chris** · 13-01-2005, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewJames

I am part of the Wiccan community, and hold no grudge over the English Celebrations, in fact I enjoy them, I enjoy seeing happy familes, seeing children happy with new toys and the excitment.

As for the East countries..well thats another matter.....i dont trust them personally as far as I can spit...

You really are going to have to explain that a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewJames

or just have a war to settle it then??

The line will be drawn sometime, and unless both sides discuss this sort of thing out, racial issues and stupid issues could cause civil problems.

To believe this is to go looking for a conflict. There is no such thing as 'us' and 'them', regardless of how the Media might like to pigeon-hole people into 'the Muslim community' or 'the Asian community'. There is no 'us' in the Christian religious sense either, as ably demonstrated by nffc espousing his ideal Christmas as waving a St George's flag and 'getting lashed'. No real Christian, who is serious about following Jesus, would deliberately set out to get plastered, least of all in celebration of the Lord's birthday.

And before I forget, the only thing that prevented me celebrating Christmas this year (i.e. by going to church) was the snow.

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:45

No point I would just get torn to shreds either way on here, I will continue to read on though.

My ideas are mind, but I am always told I think to outside the box.

Russ · 13-01-2005, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombini

As an English citizen in England I have a legal right to fly the flag of England & the Union flag, has anyone the legal right to fly another countries flag while in England?

I was waving the Welsh national flag at a Stereophonics gig in Oxford a few years back...

kronas · 13-01-2005, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

So do you agree that in Iraq, Saudi Arabia a Christian minority should be able to wave the England flag, get lashed and celebrate Christmas?

no, i believe that a person in any country shouyld be allowed to celebrate their religions customs in the manner they choose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

You talk about fair play and equality, but I suspect what you mean is that you would prefer to treat 'them' as equal only once they decide to follow the white man's path.

i think a few in this thread believe that to be the case and follow that rule of thumb.

Ramrod · 13-01-2005, 17:02

I find myself wondering why it is that we don't get Jews parading through our streets and spouting sermons in the middle of the road. For that matter us Latvians have a rich cultural tradition and interesting national dress but you don't get us demanding the right to take to the streets. Why is it that Muslims feel the need to do this?.......Just wondering......
On the other hand, I have no objection to Muslims parading and waving their little flags about either.......as long as they don't go burning the British flag.

PC gone mad imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

no, i believe that a person in any country shouyld be allowed to celebrate their religions customs in the manner they choose.

ermmmmm.........I remember a brouhaha a few years ago where some middle eastern type slaughtered a goat in the street for some religious reason or other......you agree with that?

nffc · 13-01-2005, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

There is no 'us' in the Christian religious sense either, as ably demonstrated by nffc espousing his ideal Christmas as waving a St George's flag and 'getting lashed'. No real Christian, who is serious about following Jesus, would deliberately set out to get plastered, least of all in celebration of the Lord's birthday.

Actually I agree with you- although that is how most people celebrate Christmas here. IMO it's lost its true meaning, doesn't mean people don't use it as an excuse for overextravagance, excessive alcohol consumption and overindulgence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

So do you agree that in Iraq, Saudi Arabia a Christian minority should be able to wave the England flag, get lashed and celebrate Christmas?

no, i believe that a person in any country shouyld be allowed to celebrate their religions customs in the manner they choose.

Fair point. I agree BTW.

Nugget · 13-01-2005, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewJames

No point I would just get torn to shreds either way on here, I will continue to read on though.

My ideas are mind, but I am always told I think to outside the box.

You've probably been told you think outside the box because nobody else will let you in.

Some of your comments are severely outdated at best:

Quote:

We have bowed to there rules and allowed them to do there cutural things for ages

'We' haven't bowed to any rules - as I said earlier, anybody who lives in this country is expected to abide by this countrys rules. If they don't, they can expect the llegal system to take action. Also, it isn't a case off 'allowing them to do their cultural thing' - we live in a country that practises freedom of expression, which includes religious expression (again, within the law).

Quote:

Because we do soo much for them, and yet we have to change our way of life to suit there religion, all this during Xmas about shops banning Xmas stuff was to suit them.

Shops banning Christmas stuff? Not in Grimsby (where I live), not in Scunthorpe (where I work), and not in good old multi-cultural Birmingham (where my family lives).

Quote:

As for the East countries..well thats another matter.....i dont trust them personally as far as I can spit...

That comment in itself is just beneath contempt - a sweeping generalisation that you don't trust anybody from, what, East of Turkey? It's ridiculous that you can just lump the entire Eastern world into one swingeing comment.