Now the shoe is on the other foot.... - Page 2

nffc · 13-01-2005, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by skunk4u

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey

Personally, I don't think they should be allowed to wear kilts. Ever. A sudden gust of wind and it could scar me for life

Quote:

slightly different. Look in places like Oldham, Burnley, etc, some parts they've even reflected the ethnic mix by having signs in Urdu. In some parts of England you can't fly the St Georges flag without being told to take it down because it's either "racist" or "inciting racial hatred". I'm not against people flying flags, it's slightly different to alienating the "natives" by demanding their lifestyle, laws, customs are changed. Slightly different to wearing a football shirt, kilt or waving a flag.

Agree and well put.

Why roll eyes then?

Mr_love_monkey · 13-01-2005, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Depends which way you're facing

You mean you would have a preference??????

Nugget · 13-01-2005, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

slightly different. Look in places like Oldham, Burnley, etc, some parts they've even reflected the ethnic mix by having signs in Urdu. In some parts of England you can't fly the St Georges flag without being told to take it down because it's either "racist" or "inciting racial hatred". I'm not against people flying flags, it's slightly different to alienating the "natives" by demanding their lifestyle, laws, customs are changed. Slightly different to wearing a football shirt, kilt or waving a flag.

Hang on, who's demanding changes to lifestyle, laws and customs? Yes, places like Burnley have a large ethnic population, but why is this a problem? Anybody who lives in this country is expected to adhere to British law, regardless of their cultural background.

The reason places like your examples have signs in Urdu (amongst others) is because they are needed - if someone comes to this country seeking political asylum for example, they aren't necessarily going to have hung around to learn English before they came, now are they?

**Chris** · 13-01-2005, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

I was referring to them using it as an excuse to ban OUR flag.

Right. So do we agree that everyone should be allowed to fly any flag, nobody should be allowed to fly any flag, or that only the Union flag, or those of the home nations, should be allowed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

slightly different. Look in places like Oldham, Burnley, etc, some parts they've even reflected the ethnic mix by having signs in Urdu. In some parts of England you can't fly the St Georges flag without being told to take it down because it's either "racist" or "inciting racial hatred". I'm not against people flying flags, it's slightly different to alienating the "natives" by demanding their lifestyle, laws, customs are changed. Slightly different to wearing a football shirt, kilt or waving a flag.

Agreed it's slightly different, but it's not completely different. You appear to be suggesting that some flags are acceptable and others are not, on the basis that certain flags imply that the person waving it has failed to integrate sufficiently into a British way of life.

It's not completely different because Britain itself is a largely artificial construct. Though there is more that unites us than divides us, there are significant cultural (and increasingly political) differences between the home nations. I could be accused of 'failing to integrate' by persisting in being overtly English even though I live in Scotland. Similarly ex-pats living in France have been in the headlines lately for upsetting the locals (setting up English-speaking shops, going round each other's houses for parties, refusing to learn French). They are in France, but still in Europe, which is another artificial construct but nevertheless one that ties the two countries together. How far does this confer a right on those ex-pats to decline to integrate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Done what, integrated or sponged? Immigrants from Eastern europe 1940s-50s worked hard for the country, as did later immigrants from the Commonwealth eg Asia, Africa, Caribbean. Same can be said for the Turkish "Gastarbeiters" who helped rebuild Germany after WWII.

Immigration is not a problem, it's the people that abuse the immigration and benefit system I have a problem with.

Both. You seemed to be implying that you thought a great number of immigrants have failed to integrate and contribute. If that's not what you meant then it's just me misunderstanding you (sorry!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

I'm not anti-immigration and I'm not racist. I just think people should be fair and treat others as equals with the right to their opinion.

I agree. Which is why I think muslims should be allowed to fly any flag they choose during their religious celebration, and that anyone else should be allowed to fly the flag of their choice whenever the fancy takes them. Banning flags as described in the news article will achieve nothing.

nffc · 13-01-2005, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Hang on, who's demanding changes to lifestyle, laws and customs? Yes, places like Burnley have a large ethnic population, but why is this a problem? Anybody who lives in this country is expected to adhere to British law, regardless of their cultural background.

I agree but when they are the majority people may think differently.

Quote:

The reason places like your examples have signs in Urdu (amongst others) is because they are needed - if someone comes to this country seeking political asylum for example, they aren't necessarily going to have hung around to learn English before they came, now are they?

Why seek political asylum here though, aren't they supposed to go to the nearest safe country? France must be so bad for them...

zoombini · 13-01-2005, 16:16

Eee, this is gonna be a right old immigration\racist\hate thread.

Living in Burnley, I can say that I see the Red cross flying on many houses & shops still, many of them are Asian too.

As an English citizen in England I have a legal right to fly the flag of England & the Union flag, has anyone the legal right to fly another countries flag while in England?

BBKing · 13-01-2005, 16:22

Every embassy in London, for a start, conference centres, hotels...

STONEISLAND · 13-01-2005, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Why roll eyes then?

Dude there looking up?

kronas · 13-01-2005, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombini

As an English citizen in England I have a legal right to fly the flag of England & the Union flag, has anyone the legal right to fly another countries flag while in England?

i believe they should be, if this country is 'multi cultural' then atleast ethnic people should be allowed to raise their flag on a day of celebration, if certain areas of the UK have a problem with the st geroges flag or union jack being shown then its not true for the whole country.

its unfair to have a ban on one type of flag but not the rest.

nffc · 13-01-2005, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombini

As an English citizen in England I have a legal right to fly the flag of England & the Union flag, has anyone the legal right to fly another countries flag while in England?

i believe they should be, if this country is 'multi cultural' then atleast ethnic people should be allowed to raise their flag on a day of celebration, if certain areas of the UK have a problem with the st geroges flag or union jack being shown then its not true for the whole country.

its unfair to have a ban on one type of flag but not the rest.

Well I agree- it should be all or nothing, that's what equality is and if certain groups can't understand that, then tough.

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

Ridiculous. They should not be banned from waving flags, and nor should anyone else. It's all very well seeing this as equality at last, but if it ultimately serves to further justify the banning of the Union flag, or St George's cross, then what have we gained in the end?

our dignity as a nation. Because we do soo much for them, and yet we have to change our way of life to suit there religion, all this during Xmas about shops banning Xmas stuff was to suit them.

Its about time it went 50/50, then the average Joe Soap, can know that we are getting into a fair nation.

I for one am sick of English doing this English doing that...and Asians doing sweet Jack all.

its about time they came down to earth, and realised something called playing it fair, and equality..

BBKing · 13-01-2005, 16:29

We gain dignity by banning people from doing things? This isn't fricking Burma, our nation historically allows people freedom to do what they like, whether that's dignified or not. That's why so many people want to come here from places that don't allow them that freedom. It seems rather strange and un-British to want to throw all that away and have a police state.

kronas · 13-01-2005, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Well I agree- it should be all or nothing, that's what equality is and if certain groups can't understand that, then tough.

im glad you agree, but it does not change the fact that the people of southall cannot raise the flags of the respective countries, yet those who raise flags of this country can ? thats not equality at all, its nothing to do with intergration and immigration at all nffc, but rather being allowed to celebrate something that has about the same importance as christmas.

AndrewJ · 13-01-2005, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

We gain dignity by banning people from doing things? This isn't fricking Burma, our nation historically allows people freedom to do what they like, whether that's dignified or not. That's why so many people want to come here from places that don't allow them that freedom. It seems rather strange and un-British to want to throw all that away and have a police state.

I for one speak my mind when I say.

We have bowed to there rules and allowed them to do there cutural things for ages, we aint saying it is wrong, but whenever we ask a asian community to do stuff its "your being racist" thrown in our faces and we can not go back on them because a massive do is made over everything. Yes before people ask I do have alot of Asian friends, and I get on well with them, because they are making something of there lives here.

It is about time the communities got together and BOTH SIDES draw there lines on what to publically celebrate or what to keep private.

nffc · 13-01-2005, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Well I agree- it should be all or nothing, that's what equality is and if certain groups can't understand that, then tough.

im glad you agree, but it does not change the fact that the people of southall cannot raise the flags of the respective countries, yet those who raise flags of this countrys can ? thats not equality at all, its nothing to do with intergration and immigration at all nffc, but rather being allowed to celebrate something that has about the same importance as christmas.

Yeah but the official religion of this country is Christianity.

They knew that when they emigrated, they know we celebrate Christmas (did they have their holiday and ****up at christmas, think they did

) so why impose their customs on the rest of us.

If the boot was on the other foot, if we all emigrated to Saudi Arabia or somewhere and the women wore the dresses, and we carried on our customs, drinking, flag waving, wanting time off at Christmas, we'd be punished.

Maybe stopping them flying their flag is wrong. But chances are that would be what British people would get in other countries.