*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by Ignition

The average usage for a broadband user in the UK is 6GB (This includes 'heavier' users).

5% of users are responsible for 65% of usage.

Remove that and the average drops below 5GB. I would hope that the caps make more sense. You can't please everyone all the time, however the majority that will be fine with 5GB along with the >95% that are fine with 30GB or 40GB will be pleased.

I'm a bit shocked the averages use is that high, after you take heavy users out of the equation.

This figure is taken while most ntl users are on 300k, which isn't proper broadband, i recall people saying they can't even sign up to Broadband Plus on this speed, as it doesn't support many of the multimedia streams.

So ntl are upgrading everyone that's on 300k, to 1mb. All those people who couldn't sign up to Broadband Plus, and had a limited internet experience, will now be able to do things they couldn't do before, just as people who move from dial up to 300k, it opens up new ways to enjoy the internet.

Now, if those people (however many hundred thousand of them) all get 1mb speeds in the next few weeks/months, they ARE going to try downloading things they wouldn't have before, they're gonna start listening to internet radio, watching internet tv, downloading bigger movie clips, etc.

I've seen people mention that just because you get a faster speed, you don't have to download more, but in this case it does mean that, because the new, faster speed opens up new possibilities.

So, ntl in their infinite wisdom (teehee) have decided to impose a cap, based on current use, taking the 'less than 5gb' average use of non-heavy users, and at the same time give those very people a connection which is over 3 times the speed. You can't honestly expect someone not to change their internet habits, while changing to a speed so much faster than the old one. Ntl have only introduced this much faster speed to lure the public with misleading advertising (they won't mention the cap in the ads, just that they have the fastest lower teir). Simple reason for this is, they're desperate to offer the fastest speeds, and keep ahead of ADSL, but can't actually support it.

Same with the 3mb line, they introduced it to keep up there with ADSL, but to offer a speed like this with a 40GB cap, is just ludicrous. People who will pay for a 3mb line, are going to be heavy users, people who use the internet a lot, and want to download BIG files, fast. And to give them a service that can only be used less than an hour a day is just pointless.

Regardless of how we all feel about caps, i really do think ntl have made a big mistake. AOL are already playing on the 'uncapped' ads, and with other ADSL companies moving into new area's, it won't be long before ntl are left behind, and losing their customers by the hundreds, and possibly thousands, to other providers, who will undoubtably play on a lot peoples fears of going over the cap, most people won't know how much 5gb is, and the sheer fear of it, will be enough to make them think twice about where they go.

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I'm a bit shocked the averages use is that high, after you take heavy users out of the equation.

I think the point being made was that the average would drop BELOW the 5GB cap, not that it would be as high as 5GB.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by tomjleeds

I guess the issue of it being USA only is kind of big

Wheresas Canada is just plain big, bigger than the USA and the second largest country by land area in the world behind Russia

The RoadRunner service you alluded to doesn't exist, RR are advertising and having checked that there's no 10Mbit, 6Mbit = max, your mates may have been telling slight porkies.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by tomjleeds

To be honest, I don't really see why anyone would need anything faster than 4Mbps/0.8Mbps, if I think about it.

I'm pretty sure I've heard that said about most thing, CPUs in particular, but as things get faster people find new things do with increase. It seems bandwidth will be an exception to that rule if the ISPs get their way. As long as they keep their profits, the growth of the internet will be restricted.

It seems a little odd how a few people in here are very interested in NTL's profits, and doing everything they can to convince people caps are good for all of us...

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

It seems a little odd how a few people in here are very interested in NTL's profits, and doing everything they can to convince people caps are good for all of us...

So let me get this straight you cannot make a convincing argument so you resort to accusations.

I would suggest you go read up on the subject and come back with good arguments instead of unsubstantiated accusations about members of this site.

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

It seems a little odd how a few people in here are very interested in NTL's profits, and doing everything they can to convince people caps are good for all of us...

Why is it odd ? If ntl do not make a profit then they will go out of business, who exactly would that help.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by Bill C

So let me get this straight you cannot make a convincing argument so you resort to accusations.

I would suggest you go read up on the subject and come back with good arguments instead of unsubstantiated accusations about members of this site.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Why is it odd ? If ntl do not make a profit then they will go out of business, who exactly would that help.

Well obviously.

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

If it is down to the UBRs it's annoying that people in areas unaffected with oversubscription should be burdened with the same cap levels.

So you would be happy for ntl to reduce your cap as they added more people to your ubr I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

You see i have no problem with caps. Therefor if i read your post correctly i must therefor only be interested in profit.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by Paul M

So you would be happy for ntl to reduce your cap as they added more people to your ubr I don't think so.

Firstly I said "If" and secondly I've never experienced any slowdown at all from my max download speed so there's no reason to think my UBR is anywhere near full, if I ever did experience slowdown I may start thinking capping extreme heavy user was good for all of us.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I'm a bit shocked the averages use is that high, after you take heavy users out of the equation.

This figure is taken while most ntl users are on 300k, which isn't proper broadband, i recall people saying they can't even sign up to Broadband Plus on this speed, as it doesn't support many of the multimedia streams.

Are those averages just of NTL users or are they of all broadband users in Britain?

Is the reason that they can't sign up for Broadband Plus because the lower tier connection is so slow or is it that NTL only provide it on the upper tiers in order to tempt those on the lowest tier to upgrade?

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

So ntl are upgrading everyone that's on 300k, to 1mb. All those people who couldn't sign up to Broadband Plus, and had a limited internet experience, will now be able to do things they couldn't do before, just as people who move from dial up to 300k, it opens up new ways to enjoy the internet.

Now, if those people (however many hundred thousand of them) all get 1mb speeds in the next few weeks/months, they ARE going to try downloading things they wouldn't have before, they're gonna start listening to internet radio, watching internet tv, downloading bigger movie clips, etc.

I've seen people mention that just because you get a faster speed, you don't have to download more, but in this case it does mean that, because the new, faster speed opens up new possibilities.

So, ntl in their infinite wisdom (teehee) have decided to impose a cap, based on current use, taking the 'less than 5gb' average use of non-heavy users, and at the same time give those very people a connection which is over 3 times the speed. You can't honestly expect someone not to change their internet habits, while changing to a speed so much faster than the old one.

Why would giving customers an upgrade from 300k to 1 Mb tempt them to start listening to internet radio, watch internet tv, downloadbigger movie clips, etc? The only time that I have listened to internet radio was when it was the only way to listen to a football match commentry. Sounded exactly the same whether you had a 300k or 1.5Mb connection. I use my radio , TV and hi-fi for audio visual pleasure of a better quality than the internet supplies. Streaming media is just one of the many things that the anti cap brigade say takes you quickly over the cap but how many actually use it for extended periods.

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

Ntl have only introduced this much faster speed to lure the public with misleading advertising (they won't mention the cap in the ads, just that they have the fastest lower teir). Simple reason for this is, they're desperate to offer the fastest speeds, and keep ahead of ADSL, but can't actually support it.

If you look at NTLs Media reports you will see that besides increasing current speeds 300k / 750k / 1.5Mb to 1Mb / 2 Mb / 3 Mb they are also introducing a lower tier of 300k priced at £15.99. Rather destroys part of your argument.

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

Same with the 3mb line, they introduced it to keep up there with ADSL, but to offer a speed like this with a 40GB cap, is just ludicrous. People who will pay for a 3mb line, are going to be heavy users, people who use the internet a lot, and want to download BIG files, fast. And to give them a service that can only be used less than an hour a day is just pointless.

Like your definition of the usage pattern of people on the highest tier the facts to back it up you got from where? My son-in-law has a top tier connection that he hardly uses at all but does want top performance and things to happen fast when he does use it.

Whilst I am on the lowest tier which is quite adequate for my needs, even with a cap, I will on occasion move to the highest tier for an odd month when I have a short term need for that speed but my bandwidth used will probably stay pretty much the same as normal whilst on that top tier.

Every NTL customer is given a service that can be used for 24 hours a day no matter what tier they are on and nobody is restricted to less than an hours use aa days.

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

Regardless of how we all feel about caps, i really do think ntl have made a big mistake. AOL are already playing on the 'uncapped' ads, and with other ADSL companies moving into new area's, it won't be long before ntl are left behind, and losing their customers by the hundreds, and possibly thousands, to other providers, who will undoubtably play on a lot peoples fears of going over the cap, most people won't know how much 5gb is, and the sheer fear of it, will be enough to make them think twice about where they go.

Marketing can make any service appear to be very good but how effective is most of it? Yes, a lot of people do not know how much 5Gb is but it doesn't stop many thousand signing up for ADSL services with a 1 or 2 Gb per month cap. NTL will not lose customers by the thousand with the new tiers and caps, they are more likely to gain customers particularly when broadband is bundled with other services at a discount which will be happening. British people are very much stuck in their ways and do not change suppliers easily and I can't see them changing because of the caps because most of them will never be affected.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by Bill C

You see i have no problem with caps. Therefor if i read your post correctly i must therefor only be interested in profit.

I didn't make any accusations directed at at anyone, I purely suggested it's possible some people on here don't fully have the customer as their first prority. I'm sorry if you thought this was aimed at you but it was not.

[Hans Gruber]

Just some everybody knows, my main problem with the cap is, as things get faster, people find more possibilities of how technology can be used. The next big thing in technology is high definition video, now there is no way using any kind of HD service is going to use small files. The only reason HD is now possible is due to faster internet services, but this will never catch on if we start capping usage.

Of course it is in the ISPs best interests to restrict what people can do, possibly so they can sell further subscription services at a later date. But for the good of the internet it is NOT good to restrict people usage. It seems the suggestion is anyone that uses over 40gb a month is a pirate that is no doubt funding terrorism. Which, currently, for the majority may be the case, but technology moves so fast this will not be true for long, but anyone using one of these new capped ISPs will not be able to experience this technology.

Once NTL realises how much bandwidth people really do need in the near future, what will they do? Remove the cap? Not likely if it's firmly in place. We will end up missing out on a huge part of the internet. Which is BAD.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Just some everybody knows, my main problem with the cap is, as things get faster, people find more possibilities of how technology can be used. The next big thing in technology is high definition video, now there is no way using any kind of HD service is going to use small files. The only reason HD is now possible is due to faster internet services, but this will never catch on if we start capping usage.

Of course it is in the ISPs best interests to restrict what people can do, possibly so they can sell further subscription services at a later date. But for the good of the internet it is NOT good to restrict people usage. It seems the suggestion is anyone that uses over 40gb a month is a pirate that is no doubt funding terrorism. Which, currently, for the majority may be the case, but technology moves so fast this will not be true for long, but anyone using one of these new capped ISPs will not be able to experience this technology.

Once NTL realises how much bandwidth people really do need in the near future, what will they do? Remove the cap? Not likely if it's firmly in place. We will end up missing out on a huge part of the internet. Which is BAD.

There will be many new applications coming in the future which will require much more bandwidth. The broadband speeds that NTL provide are not standing still, they are increasing rapidly. Both speeds and caps will increase over a period of time allowing those future applications to be run when they arrive.

High definition TV streams will eventually be available but money has to be invested in this area whether they are delivered via the internet, cable TV, satellite TV or Terrestrial TV.

Infrastructure and software have to be installed that will allow advancement in speeds and raising of caps and that can be time consuming and expensive. NTL have shown that they are making serious investment towards these ends.