*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

just a reminder - no-one knows yet!, It does not say anywhere what will happen if you go over your monthly allowance depending on service your subscribed too when it comes into effect - just as with current 1gig a day guidelines contracts, so at present i would say its a guideline.

I don't know why you are reminding us that no one knows yet when obviously people at NTL probably do know, including Ignition. The cap is not just a guideline but we have not yet been told what will happen if we exceed the cap. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by mcmanic

the moment they cap and its enfoced strictly i'll be off to AOL uncapped using the NTL service and going sky , this is what bugs me about NTL suggested capping their own users but allowing other services that use the NTL inferstructure unlimited use - bit of a kick in the teeth for loyal NTL users like me who have been with them since day1. I never signed for unlimted all those years ago, so don't intend to abide by new rules just to suit them

Well if you are satisfied with AOL 512 kbps then move to them. NTL do not dictate what conditions AOL put on their customers AFAIK just as BT don't dictate to theirs. As for not abiding by the rules, you must suffer the consequences if you don't. All things change with time and rules are put there to protect the majority.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

this is what bugs me about NTL suggested capping their own users but allowing other services that use the NTL inferstructure unlimited use - bit of a kick in the teeth for loyal NTL users like me who have been with them since day1.

Best not go with BT Broadband if you want a change then, BT capping their own users while allowing other ISPs that use their infrastructure to supply unlimited packages, disgraceful! Of course if AOL are paying for said unlimited usage the issue is.... what? Slight difference between a probably multi million pound deal and 2 users both paying £38 a month, one using 30GB a month another 400. Equating userbase differences with wholesale differences doesn't work for me, sorry.

I never signed for unlimted all those years ago, so don't intend to abide by new rules just to suit them

Well if you never signed for unlimited then what's the issue? Sadly as has been pointed out to death you are supplied a service with an Acceptable Use Policy which is subject to change, you agree that this is the case. You agreed to abide by rules as they change (with the caveat that you may cancel if you don't like them).

Like most other things in life you pay your money for the product that best suits, and if you don't like what you have you generally change your choice of product, you can't expect the product to change to accomodate your needs, though this isn't unknown it's a rarity.

To avoid this becoming a drony same old cap thread I'm not in ntl retentions or customer service, and bluntly, succinctly if you have a problem with the service with those restrictions you should go somewhere else that suits your usage pattern and pocket. I'm sure that you'll have no trouble finding someone who'll match the service speed ntl are offering for that price (unless you don't live in one of the major metropolitan areas blessed with LLU DSL and are within 3.5 or so KM worth of cable of exchange).

[th'engineer]

Originally Posted by Ignition

AOL are affected no more than Wanadoo, etc, are affected by BTBroadband capping customers. Have to remind you that the relationship with AOL is the same as the relationship between Pipex, PlusNet etc to BT Wholesale. I'm pretty sure AOL pay their way.

The ntl ADSL service is not described as uncapped: https://secure.ntlfreedom.com/broadband_512k.aspx see key features bottom right and the panel on the left. Pretty clear I hope!

My apoligies it appears that the advert has changed to include a limit on NTL ADSL .

[sherer]

i wonder what would happen is NTL blocked access to all the P2P, warez and newsgroup offering copyrighted material if anyone would be able to go over the cap then

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by th'engineer

My apoligies it appears that the advert has changed to include a limit on NTL ADSL .

Not surprised you didn't notice it that link doesn't work for me.

Also that site says my phone number isn't a valid BT number, but I'm sure it is

Edit- Found one that does work, interesting:

https://secure.ntlfreedom.com/htmlfiles/5gb.htm

What are the allowances on Freedom Broadband?
Freedom Broadband Classic - £29.99
If you use the Internet a lot and keep your connection running throughout the day, Freedom Broadband Classic will help you get the most out of Broadband. You'll be able to surf at speed and download large music or video files.

Freedom Broadband 512K - £17.99
This service gives you a 5 GB per month download allowance, this is far more than the average user requires. So, if you want a really fast connection to the Internet to check your emails, download a few photos or listen to some music online, this is the right option for you.

Not cheap either £29.99 for 512k, I pay that for 2Mbit

Edit, Edit - I like their badly scanned in table from some computer mag!

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

[tomjleeds]

Originally Posted by Earwig

But I think I would rather have a slower speed and no cap than a faster speed which I cannot use to it's full potential.
Instead of doing a 3MB capped, why not a 2MB uncapped or 2.5?? Or why not pay another £5P/m to get uncapped etc.....? Just adding this option would cater for a whole load more people!!!

I would much rather have an uncapped 1Mbps service than a low-capped 2Mbps one. Unfortunately, I don't think NTL are going to be as sensible as you suggest - for example, when the new packages appear, I'd happily pay £35 or even £40 per month for 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up uncapped. I really think that all this is going to do is lose NTL customers - I know that when I move out in about 18 months' time I'll most certainly not be getting capped NTL if I can at all help it.

Talking to guys in the US who pay £30/month for uncapped 4Mbps/1Mbps lines just makes me sick. Hopefully UKOnline will start advertising more - if people started hearing of 8Mbps broadband with 500GB transfer surely NTL would be forced to jump to 10Mbps in order to compete

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by tomjleeds

I would much rather have an uncapped 1Mbps service than a low-capped 2Mbps one. Unfortunately, I don't think NTL are going to be as sensible as you suggest - for example, when the new packages appear, I'd happily pay £35 or even £40 per month for 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up uncapped. I really think that all this is going to do is lose NTL customers - I know that when I move out in about 18 months' time I'll most certainly not be getting capped NTL if I can at all help it.

Talking to guys in the US who pay £30/month for uncapped 4Mbps/1Mbps lines just makes me sick. Hopefully UKOnline will start advertising more - if people started hearing of 8Mbps broadband with 500GB transfer surely NTL would be forced to jump to 10Mbps in order to compete

Ntl won't be doing an upload anything like 1Mbit, I don't think they can.

UKonlines upload isn't half that, although it certanly is a better deal than NTL can put together, there's a list of their LLU exchanges here.

[Ignition]

Find me an ISP in the US with uncapped 4/1 please?

Looking through the only ISP I can see in the US offering 1Mbps upload full stop is Optimum Online, and uploading too much results in a rather rapidly applied upload cap to 256kbit.

Congrats to Tom for completely missing the point though, the whole point of capping these services is to keep the prices decent, an extra £5 or £10 a month will not justify the expense to an ISP of an uncapped 2Mbps download, and certainly not a 1Mbps upload.

I really think that all this will do is trim off a section of high use users, and it will attract a far higher number of users who use closer to the UK average, which at the moment is 6GB a month....

ntl could certainly do a 1Mbps upload, the only real issue is that the same people demanding it are usually those who don't want to pay for it.

DUMeter report of what I've been doing on my completely uncapped 2Mbit service, including a fair bit of newsgroup usage (I have a paid for usenet service and search engine, I'm obviously just not greedy enough and don't download enough pointless crap that I don't actually want).

[Shaun]

I thought there was an issue with providing higher upload speeds compared with the current ones.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by dellwear

I thought there was an issue with providing higher upload speeds compared with the current ones.

Yes, it's expensive to do and 99.99% of customers won't be interested in paying for it.

[Rone]

Great news! UK Online Broadband 8000 is available in your area.
You can receive the service and should be able to achieve up to 8Mb download speeds.

Even as was suggested if everyone bails and joins UK online, even if the service is degraded by 50% to 4meg due to overloading, surely for £39 pm that has to be a good deal??
I would sooner go another few years with ntl, but they are pushing people into a corner.

[enjoymarcus]

http://forum.newzbin.com/viewtopic.php?t=3898

I hope everyone feels very inadequate now

[Earwig]

Just out of interest ignition, which I.S.P are you with??

Is there a specific reason you are not with NTL like a better deal with ADSL or perhaps you like the "Uncapped" you have at the moment?

If NTL or should I say "When" NTL impose the caps sometime this year I may well move to ADSL as I can now get a 2MB on my line instead of the previous 512k and I just wondered what you thought to your service........

[Ignition]

I feel inadequate in that the highest service I can see on that companies information is 10Mbit downstream and 8Mbit upstream. The fastest ISP in Sweden is Bredbandsbolaget http://www.bredbandsbolaget.se who offer a 100Mbit symettrical service, capped at 180GB/month if I remember right. Though Sweden is a bad comparison as Government money assisted, BBB are using Government paid for or subsidised fibre.

Earwig, there's no cable where I live, that's why I'm not with ntl, if there were I would be, and infact I've been trying to get the cable network extended VERY slightly so that I can get the service.

I'm with Hi-Velocity at the moment. http://www.hi-velocity.it I helped them out a while back and know the bosses personally.

Off-topic EDIT: Interesting how no-one is commenting on BT Wholesale's 2Mbit/256k absolute limit on services, and how slow that is compared to UKOnline and Bulldog LLU. I could receive 8Mbit on my phoneline if my exchange were LLU'd but it isn't and never will be, so I'm stuck on 2Mbit/256k. In ntl's case it's costs of provisioning upstream that hold the upstreams down, in BT's case it's being @rseholes and nothing to do with cost as the exchange backhaul is symettrical however I don't see anyone mentioning this minor detail when comparing existing services with LLU.

2nd EDIT: Sorry I couldn't give a more controversial reply when asked why I don't have ntl, the implication was in the question that you were looking for an interesting response rather than just 'because I can't'

[tomjleeds]

Originally Posted by dellwear

Ntl won't be doing an upload anything like 1Mbit, I don't think they can.

UKonlines upload isn't half that, although it certanly is a better deal than NTL can put together, there's a list of their LLU exchanges here.

Yeah, I'm aware that they won't go anywhere near that, but it's nice to dream I can't see it even going above 256Kbps in the near future, which ****es me off rather a lot I have to say.

Originally Posted by Ignition

Find me an ISP in the US with uncapped 4/1 please?

Looking through the only ISP I can see in the US offering 1Mbps upload full stop is Optimum Online, and uploading too much results in a rather rapidly applied upload cap to 256kbit.

Congrats to Tom for completely missing the point though, the whole point of capping these services is to keep the prices decent, an extra £5 or £10 a month will not justify the expense to an ISP of an uncapped 2Mbps download, and certainly not a 1Mbps upload.

I really think that all this will do is trim off a section of high use users, and it will attract a far higher number of users who use closer to the UK average, which at the moment is 6GB a month....

ntl could certainly do a 1Mbps upload, the only real issue is that the same people demanding it are usually those who don't want to pay for it.

Alright, keep your hair on! I wasn't voicing any expectation that NTL would offer such a package, I was merely suggesting something that would please a lot of people. Looking back, my price was stupid, say £50/month instead.

I understand that they're trying to keep the prices decent. However, I think they could gain a fair amnount of customers by offering more packages than they already do - a 2Mbps/512Kbps package would attract quite a lot of customers, especially if was capped at something a bit more sensible like 100GB/50GB.

In fact, now I've read through my post again, I don't suppose caps bother me all that much, so long as they're set as sensible levels. Offering 2Mbps download speed while only allowing 30GB of data transfer a month seems like madness to me - that's only just over an hour of maxing out per day. Now, if I'm experimenting with Linux distros and I want to get the full package, I'm looking at four or five discs. That's as much as 3.5GB - more than a tenth of my total monthly allowance. In my opinion, a 50GB cap on the 2Mbps package would be much more sensible, with a 75GB one on 3Mbps. But I know that's not going to happen.