Two passenger trains collide near Bedford

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I still can’t make out why the driver of the moving train didn’t apply the brakes. He must have seen the train in front a mile off.

He did.

If he hadn’t, there’d have been nothing left of the front coach of the rear train, or the back of the front train, and there’d have been many more people dead. The damage suggests a modest speed of collision, relative to the line speed at that point (looking at it, likely 100mph or more).

The most informed speculation I’ve seen on rail forums so far suggests an Advanced Train Protection system failure, which would have required the front train driver to stop immediately to report. But if there was an ATP failure the driver of the rear train may not have been fully aware of a blockage on the line ahead. The failure of an audible signal in his cab might have caused him to pass a single yellow signal but assume it was green. That would have encouraged him to accelerate to line speed rather than slow in anticipation of a red signal ahead.

[thenry]

The driver who died in a train crash near Bedford in which 100 people were injured has been named as Shaun Burton, who was 60-years old.

His family are today paying tribute to him. They said: "We are devastated by his loss. Our thoughts are also with those affected by this incident."

https://news.sky.com/story/driver-wh...named-13556293

My condolences and thoughts are with the effected .

[thenry]

A train driver killed in a crash in Bedfordshire passed a red signal moments before the collision, investigators said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly90nqpryko

[Halcyon]

So we've now found out that the train passed a red signal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly90nqpryko




I thought trains had a system like a radar or something that sends a signal at the front of the train. If it bounces off an object (the other train) then it sees there is a collion possible and alerts the driver.
Surely that should have been working?

[heero_yuy]

R4 news reported that the following train passed a red signal a 70MPH but had automatically braked down to 40MPH at the time if the collision.

[thenry]

Yeah it didn't look like it collided at 100mph

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

So we've now found out that the train passed a red signal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly90nqpryko




I thought trains had a system like a radar or something that sends a signal at the front of the train. If it bounces off an object (the other train) then it sees there is a collion possible and alerts the driver.
Surely that should have been working?

TPWS has been installed throughout much of Britain’s rail network. Unfortunately, TPWS had not been installed here.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

R4 news reported that the following train passed a red signal a 70MPH but had automatically braked down to 40MPH at the time if the collision.

According to the BBC report, it was slightly faster.

The train that had started its journey at Corby, passed this red signal, its brakes were activated for about nine seconds before the collision, when the train was travelling at about 76 mph.

Its speed had reduced to 49mph when the impact happened.

I would have thought the problem with radar based systems is that by the time they detect a crash, its too late to stop. Trains take a bit longer than cars.

Originally Posted by denphone

TPWS has been installed throughout much of Britain’s rail network. Unfortunately, TPWS had not been installed here.

No, but the trains on this line have AWS which while it does not provide for automatic braking when a train SPADs, it does issue an audible warning in the cab. Not just for red signals but for amber ones as well.

Unfortunately the findings so far released back up the informed speculation on all the trainspotters forums - namely that the first train’s driver identified a fault with AWS and stopped immediately to report it as per the rulebook. If the AWS fault had just been on his train, then the following train would still have had a correct audible AWS indication in the cab and even if the driver had not been able to see the signal ahead, would have known to slow down. The fact that the following train was near line speed when the driver braked suggests that AWS equipment had failed on the track itself, and led him to believe the upcoming signal was not at red. He will have applied the emergency brake when he could actually see the stationary train in front of him, by which time it was too late to avoid a collision.

If, as seems to be the case, the fault was with lineside equipment not correctly warning driver of signal aspects with an in-cab warning, then even if TPWS was installed it wouldn’t have worked.

[Taf]

In the UK, a signal passed at red (SPAR) is used where a signal changes to red directly in front of a train, due to a fault or emergency, meaning it is impossible to stop before the signal.

Originally Posted by Taf

In the UK, a signal passed at red (SPAR) is used where a signal changes to red directly in front of a train, due to a fault or emergency, meaning it is impossible to stop before the signal.

It is unclear that has happened in this case. An AWS fault suggests that the audible warnings were missing or making the wrong sound on approaching the signal. It doesn’t indicate an issue with the signal itself.

[Dude111]

This is very sad