Starmer’s chronicles

[Carth]

Originally Posted by thenry

A lot going on in this piece. Evidence shows exposure knocks down barriers. That's what I've heard from professionals before at wellbeing events.

It could be argued that spending month after month chasing employment but not getting it could lead to depression, sort of catch 22

[thenry]

Do you think the job centre are out of ideas?

Originally Posted by thenry

Do you think the job centre are out of ideas?

or out of jobs ..

[Carth]

It will soon be job center AI trying to find jobs for the people they replaced.

[Sephiroth]

Those fools not only get it wrong but their PR bods are totally misadvising them.

Surely they should understand how ridiculous they are seen to be with their constant bleating about what they inherited with regard to housing migrants.

First they promised to "smash the gangs". FAIL - and we don't hear about that any more.

Then they promised to have migrants out of hotels by the end of the Parliament. By the end of the Parliament!

Then, skipping a few more FAILS, they did the one in one out 1,000 in deal with France. This they claimed was the start of the answer! Until one of the deportees came back on the next boat. Lammy triumphantly said he'll be re-deported as often as it takes. This is the Lammy who championed the migrants when he was in opposition.

All they needed to do at day one was to commission the barrack type buildings on government land. A year later the migrants would be out of hotels.

Everyone knows three facts:

1. The ECHR lies at the base of the problems and this inhibits government action.

2. Asylum seeker chasing lawyers have been cashing in for years.

3. France is shovelling them over to the UK.

So, the fools have had more than a year to sort out the ECHR - but they haven't. Domestic unrest is on the rise and this is fully down to this government.

What a mess.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

So, the fools have had more than a year to sort out the ECHR - but they haven't.

The Conservatives had 14 years to do this but you didn't criticise them at the time.

I think the consensus seems to be moving towards agreement that leaving the EHCR won't work as it will disrupt too many agreements, but some changes to it may be the solution.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The Conservatives had 14 years to do this but you didn't criticise them at the time.

I think the consensus seems to be moving towards agreement that leaving the EHCR won't work as it will disrupt too many agreements, but some changes to it may be the solution.

Look - we all know what a mess the Conservatives made of this problem - although Rwanda should have been given a chance given the investment made.

And yes, when I said "... sort out the ECHR" I had in mind derogations that had prior opinions given by the Supreme Court.

As to leaving the ECHR completely, you are right in so far as consequences and risks must be clearly (and openly) assessed. The EU is very happy with the bleed valve that is the migrants' boats and the EU might thus give us grief in terms of our trade agreement.

My preference, as you know, is to push the boats back having declared a national emergency and then deal with the resulting international incident. Matters will swiftly come to a head .

Serious question - how would the boats (mainly inflatables) be "pushed back"?

What physical mechanism would be employed without causing multiple drownings, which would breach Article 98 of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and could put the Sailors on the ships doing the "pushing back" at risk of prosecution for murder?

[Sephiroth]

This problem needs solving and if we can't send them to Rwanda and similar than drastic measures are necessary. The UK is being taken away from us in this and other ways.

The government can indemnify the military and can develop a nudging back technique using our naval vessels, having declared a national emergency. The boats will be in French waters when nudged and any rescue, if needed, would be a matter for the French.

Whatever the EU tries to do to us, we can stop the French from fishing in our waters if it comes to tit-for-tat.

Something has to be done and enough is enough.

[Carth]

The English Channel used to be our protection from 'invasion', it has now become a highway.

Unlike other European countries, we can't build hundreds of miles of fencing and guard towers to secure our borders, and we are prevented - by law - from using even the mildest of force on any boats heading our way.

I think we're screwed, we can't even house them in tin huts in muddy fields as a deterrent.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Serious question - how would the boats (mainly inflatables) be "pushed back"?

What physical mechanism would be employed without causing multiple drownings, which would breach Article 98 of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and could put the Sailors on the ships doing the "pushing back" at risk of prosecution for murder?

Article 98 doesn’t apply unless the boats are in distress.

Article 95 grants immunity to British naval vessels.

Article 25 specifically gives the coastal state the right to prevent passage into its territorial waters that is not innocent.

There is nothing illegal in refusing a boat to enter U.K. territorial waters. If the U.K. coast guard or navy picks up a small boat the passengers should just be taken directly back to the coastal state from where they departed.

If the U.K. coast guard or navy picks up a small boat the passengers should just be taken directly back to the coastal state from where they departed

We used to be able to do that...

Anyhoo, love to see how pushing an inflatable back to the French coast without turning it over or people falling off the sides of the crowded inflatable wouldn't be counted as "in distress"...

---------- Post added at 15:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

This problem needs solving and if we can't send them to Rwanda and similar than drastic measures are necessary. The UK is being taken away from us in this and other ways.

The government can indemnify the military and can develop a nudging back technique using our naval vessels, having declared a national emergency. The boats will be in French waters when nudged and any rescue, if needed, would be a matter for the French.

Whatever the EU tries to do to us, we can stop the French from fishing in our waters if it comes to tit-for-tat.

Something has to be done and enough is enough.

"something magic can happen"...

[Sephiroth]

@Hugh

What would your solution be to the boat people problem?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@Hugh

What would your solution be to the boat people problem?

It's not just Hugh, almost everyone knows what we CAN'T do, but nobody seems to have a clue as to what we CAN do.

There are plenty of people with notions on what we'd LIKE to do, but . . .

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

We used to be able to do that....

But we didn’t, as it wasn’t an issue and if we were still in the EU and this was happening i doubt things would be drastically different.

Oh, and we still could return them, if we had a backbone.