Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

We'll have to wait and see, but it would be churlish not to recognise this as a good day. Hostages released, the bombing has stopped, and much-needed aid is about to flood into Gaza.

[Pierre]

The fact that one side is releasing live detainees and the other is returning bodies gets to the very core of this.

[thenry]

The bodies if ever found are proving difficult to return as those holding them hostage may have died themselves. SkyNews

[Sephiroth]

... and what was Infantini (FIFA President) doing there?

[thenry]

Qatar could have built and demolished a world cup. Qatar is at the table.

Originally Posted by noel43

Not really trumps plan most of it was proposed at the beginning of the year by france

Did France make it work ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The fact that one side is releasing live detainees and the other is returning bodies gets to the very core of this.

That one side has 28 bodies to return whilst the other side cannot return the 67,000 bodies it pulverised?

This should be a day to move on Pierre and for us all to be grateful that the remaining hostages have been released and the shelling of innocent residents has ended.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Did France make it work ?

Exactly, it's alright Sleepy Joe or France having a plan but if you can't implement it, it's just a Word doc.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That one side has 28 bodies to return whilst the other side cannot return the 67,000 bodies it pulverised?

This should be a day to move on Pierre and for us all to be grateful that the remaining hostages have been released and the shelling of innocent residents has ended.
<SNIP>

Hamas made the mistake of taking hostages after invading Israel and murdering 1200 people.

They didn't release the hostages and Gaza got pulverised.

At least I keep the balance. Hamas could have stopped the pulverisation at any time.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That one side has 28 bodies to return whilst the other side cannot return the 67,000 bodies it pulverised?

This should be a day to move on Pierre and for us all to be grateful that the remaining hostages have been released and the shelling of innocent residents has ended.

So naive.

67,000 ok well they’re Hamas numbers and will include combatants….but I’ll let it go.

Hostages are a very different thing. These are people, obviously unarmed and in your care for Christ’s sake.

To try to equate the two or have any kind of Whataboutary, is quite frankly disgusting.

Those hostages alive or dead, in the “care” of Hamas have been Ill treated, tortured, if female probably raped many times and then 28 of them executed in cold blood.

So no, I’m not “moving on” for your convenience.

My point stands.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Hamas made the mistake of taking hostages after invading Israel and murdering 1200 people.

They didn't release the hostages and Gaza got pulverised.

At least I keep the balance. Hamas could have stopped the pulverisation at any time.

Israel could have got the hostages back more quickly if they'd chosen the path the hostage families wanted him to take. But Netanyahu sadly prioritised his stay in power above all else.

Only the USA could have stopped Netanyahu continuing to pound Gaza.Credit to Trump for being effective in doing this when Sleepy didn't.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Israel could have got the hostages back more quickly if they'd chosen the path the hostage families wanted him to take. But Netanyahu sadly prioritised his stay in power above all else.

<removed>

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Israel could have got the hostages back more quickly if they'd chosen the path the hostage families wanted him to take. But Netanyahu sadly prioritised his stay in power above all else.

Only the USA could have stopped Netanyahu continuing to pound Gaza.Credit to Trump for being effective in doing this when Sleepy didn't.

You were careful not to mention what the path wanted by the families was.

So what did they demand of Netanyahu and when? It varied along the timeline.

I suggest everyone here think about their replies.
Make your points without handing out insults to members.

I prefer not to be handing out timeouts, or topic bans.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Israel could have got the hostages back more quickly if they'd chosen the path the hostage families wanted him to take. But Netanyahu sadly prioritised his stay in power above all else.

Ok….for not wanting to upset anyone.


What’s your point?

1. What Path was that?
2. Are you suggesting Netanyahu is somehow responsible for the dead hostages?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You were careful not to mention what the path wanted by the families was.

So what did they demand of Netanyahu and when? It varied along the timeline.

Plenty of articles have discussed this over the last year. Here's one from the Israeli newspaper Haaretz back in March. Full link attached.

Analysis | Two Months Ago We Had Hope. Then Trump Allowed Netanyahu to Destroy the Hostage Negotiations

U.S. President Donald Trump and Steve Witkoff seems to be falling into the same trap that caused Joe Biden's team to fail after the collapse of the first hostage deal: They have let Benjamin Netanyahu set the terms for the negotiations.

...But we witnessed with amazement how he [Steve Witkoff] succeeded in pressuring both Hamas and the Netanyahu government. With Trump's backing and support, he managed to get a cease-fire in place and a multistage deal to release all the hostages and end the war.

We knew right from the start that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu didn't want this deal. As the vast majority of hostage families in Israel have said and written, the U.S. government has been more committed to the release of the hostages than the Israeli one. This despite the fact that Netanyahu and his ruling coalition bear the ultimate responsibility for the failures that allowed Hamas to kill 1,200 Israelis on October 7 and kidnap 251 into Gaza – an unprecedented catastrophe in the history of our young country.

For Netanyahu, from the moment the cease-fire deal was signed, there was one clear objective: to make it collapse before the end of March, when his ruling coalition must pass a state budget for 2025 or else automatically fall and Israel will head to new elections.
In order to pass the budget, he needed his extremist partners – most notably Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and the Kahanist Itamar Ben-Gvir – to support it. That's why we always knew he would try to blow up the deal at some point this month.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-ffbc94e10000

As the paper stated in June

To End the Gaza War, Trump Must Pressure Netanyahu. Instead, He's Coddling Him

https://archive.ph/zFETS#selection-307.0-307.78