Russia has invaded Ukraine

[thenry]

Yvette Cooper saying the UK will support NATO risking armed confrontation

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by thenry

Yvette Cooper saying the UK will support NATO risking armed confrontation

That's kind of how membership of Nato works.

Well NATO aren't risking are they? Don't fly places into NATO airspace, it's really easy not to do that.

Originally Posted by thenry

Yvette Cooper saying the UK will support NATO risking armed confrontation

Relax, the Cold War was full of that sort of thing. We’ve been violating each others’ airspace ‘accidentally’ for decades. Neither side wants to end up as radioactive dust, so they find a way to play it down when one side takes a potshot at the other.

Originally Posted by Chris

Relax, the Cold War was full of that sort of thing. We’ve been violating each others’ airspace ‘accidentally’ for decades. Neither side wants to end up as radioactive dust, so they find a way to play it down when one side takes a potshot at the other.

I think it's rare to actually invade each other' airspace? Usually, it's getting really close to test response times/send a message.

Originally Posted by Chris

Relax, the Cold War was full of that sort of thing. We’ve been violating each others’ airspace ‘accidentally’ for decades. Neither side wants to end up as radioactive dust, so they find a way to play it down when one side takes a potshot at the other.

tbf, it was more running SR71s up and down the East German & Czech borders (staying on our side) to test their reaction times, and to find out the location of their PVO Strany (Protivo Vozdushnaya Oborona Strany) Air Defence units, which we would then use to plan routes to avoid if ever there was a requirement to deliver Instant Sunshine from Bruggen and Laarbruch…

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it's rare to actually invade each other' airspace? Usually, it's getting really close to test response times/send a message.

The BBC showed ‘Bridge of Spies’ the other week - it’s probably still on iPlayer. Worth a watch if you want a flavour of the sort of stuff both sides did when they thought they might get away with it. (Also it’s a very good film, featuring Tom Hanks and Mark Rylance, who are excellent in everything).

Originally Posted by Chris

The BBC showed ‘Bridge of Spies’ the other week - it’s probably still on iPlayer. Worth a watch if you want a flavour of the sort of stuff both sides did when they thought they might get away with it. (Also it’s a very good film, featuring Tom Hanks and Mark Rylance, who are excellent in everything).

Yeah, seen that. Although don't remember too much these days. Due a rewatch probably.

https://archive.ph/ZHKip

Ukraine hit Russian energy sites with US help

Trump administration has supported Kyiv’s operations since summer in co-ordinated push to weaken Moscow


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The US has for months been helping Ukraine mount long-range strikes on Russian energy facilities, in what officials say is a co-ordinated effort to weaken Vladimir Putin’s economy and force him to the negotiating table.

American intelligence shared with Kyiv has enabled strikes on important Russian energy assets including oil refineries far beyond the frontline, according to multiple Ukrainian and US officials familiar with the campaign.

The previously unreported support has intensified since midsummer and has been crucial in helping Ukraine carry out attacks that Joe Biden’s White House discouraged. Kyiv’s strikes have driven up energy prices in Russia and prompted Moscow to cut diesel exports and import fuel.

The intelligence sharing is the latest sign that Trump has deepened his support for Ukraine as his frustration with Russia has grown.

The shift came after a phone call between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy in July, when the FT reported the US president asked whether Ukraine could strike Moscow if Washington provided long-range weapons.

Trump signalled his backing for a strategy to “make them [Russians] feel the pain” and compel the Kremlin to negotiate, said the two people briefed on the call. The White House later said Trump was “merely asking a question, not encouraging further killing”.


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The US intelligence helps Kyiv shape route planning, altitude, timing and mission decisions, enabling Ukraine’s long-range, one-way attack drones to evade Russian air defences, said the officials familiar with the matter.

Three people familiar with the operation said Washington was closely involved in all stages of planning. A US official said Ukraine selected the targets for long-range strikes and Washington then provided intelligence on the sites’ vulnerabilities.

But others involved and briefed on the operations said the US had also set out target priorities for the Ukrainians. One of them described Kyiv’s drone force as the “instrument” for Washington to undermine Russia’s economy and push Putin towards a settlement.

[Carth]

Trump: "I'm gonna stop the war by poking the bear"

oh well

Originally Posted by Carth

Trump: "I'm gonna stop the war by poking the bear"

oh well

Or…

I’m going to stop the war by degrading Russia’s ability to wage war…

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Or…

I’m going to stop the war by degrading Russia’s ability to wage war…

while pretending not to take sides whilst helping Ukraine

Originally Posted by Carth

while pretending not to take sides whilst helping Ukraine

Well, considering the latest (2 days ago) US Defence budget* ($925 billion) contained $400 million for supporting Ukraine, and there was the signing of the PURL agreement between the U.S. and NATO on July 14, which allows for the transfer of U.S. weapons to Ukraine (funded by European countries), people would have to be very gullible and/or stupid to believe that…

*which, ironically, is below the 5% of GDP that Trump has insisted the NATO members spend on defence…

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, considering the latest (2 days ago) US Defence budget* ($925 billion) contained $400 million for supporting Ukraine, and there was the signing of the PURL agreement between the U.S. and NATO on July 14, which allows for the transfer of U.S. weapons to Ukraine (funded by European countries), people would have to be very gullible and/or stupid to believe that…

*which, ironically, is below the 5% of GDP that Trump has insisted the NATO members spend on defence…

Which goes to show that the USA (and Europe) are providing funding and weapons as part of the 'peace process'

which again brings us around to ""I'm gonna stop the war by poking the bear"

Originally Posted by Carth

Which goes to show that the USA (and Europe) are providing funding and weapons as part of the 'peace process'

which again brings us around to ""I'm gonna stop the war by poking the bear"

There is no ‘peace process’, just Putin saying ’sure, sure I want peace, but Ukraine has to surrender first’…

USA and Europe are proving money and weapons to stop an aggressor, who would probably (as he has recently called these countries ‘part of the Greater Rus’) then move into Georgia (further than he already has), Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia…