Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Paul

How exactly ?

Carth’s reply covers it/

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Carth’s reply covers it/

If you can't get building materials in due to a blockade, you can't build up the infrastructure and the region is condemned to poverty. Praying in aid to an earlier erroneous post does not win your point with Paul.

[Carth]

"hey, you Hamas guys, now you've taken over in Gaza do you need cash and building materials? "

"Nah mate, but if you can chuck us some guns, bullets, and bombs we have a plan"

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If you can't get building materials in due to a blockade, you can't build up the infrastructure and the region is condemned to poverty.

500km of concrete lined excavated tunnels, 5,700 shafts.

Would seem to be at odds with that point of view.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

500km of concrete lined excavated tunnels, 5,700 shafts.

Would seem to be at odds with that point of view.

If/when that’s independently verified you make a very valid point

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Carth’s reply covers it/

No, it didnt, but of course no one actually expected you to answer it, as usual.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

500km of concrete lined excavated tunnels, 5,700 shafts.

Would seem to be at odds with that point of view.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

If/when that’s independently verified you make a very valid point

I think there was a network of tunnels before Hamas 'moved in', built by the previous regime to facilitate the ease of certain resources being imported.

I also think Hamas may have extensively added to that network.

[45rpm]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nope. Nice fantasy but without substantial funds and reliable connections to the outside World like airports, they were on a hiding to nothing.

The Gazans clearly had funds, resources, manpower, etc after Israel vacated the Strip. The proof is: they managed to construct more mileage of tunnels compared to the London underground. They also developed and built rockets that they have been constantly firing.
BUT. as I said above, they could have used their energy and funds to create a tourist oasis - it would have been much less demanding (as the Americans say) - you do the math!

Credit to them for their hardwork it's a shame (for them) that they didn't channel it to something easier and more rewarding.

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Originally Posted by 45rpm

they could have used their energy and funds to create a tourist Oasis

I'm sure Liam and Noel, would corroborate.

How would the tourists manage to get into Gaza with the Israel’s blockade in place?

I think these Israeli actions may have diminished any ability to create a "tourist paradise"…

https://web.archive.org/web/20181004...ticle27196.htm

According to a cable from the US embassy in Tel Aviv dated November 3, 2008 -- obtained by WikiLeaks and posted online by Norwegian daily Aftenposten -- Israeli officials told US diplomats of their intention to strangle the economy of Gaza.

"As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed ... on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge," the secret cable, posted online in its original version, read.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

How would the tourists manage to get into Gaza with the Israel’s blockade in place?

Why would there be a blockade if it was explicitly evidenced that the Gazans were willing to live in peace in their own state, side by side, and become a tourist economy.


It’s sort of the whole point of this particular arm of the discussion.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why would there be a blockade if it was explicitly evidenced that the Gazans were willing to live in peace in their own state, side by side, and become a tourist economy.

It’s sort of the whole point of this particular arm of the discussion.

Whatever the motives of Israel, be they territorial or otherwise, preventing Gaza from developing a tourist economy has been the approach they've taken. A successful economy is not a good breeding ground for militants; a bad economy is.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Israel, preventing Gaza from developing a tourist economy has been the approach they've taken.

I think you mean Hamas. An independent Gaza, evidently peaceful towards Israel, and recognising Israel as a legitimate Jewish state from the off, could have achieved anything they wanted.

[Carth]

I strongly suspect that, when Hamas took control of Gaza, Israel (and most of the western World) gave a little shudder and thought "shit, this won't end well"

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

I strongly suspect that, when Hamas took control of Gaza, Israel (and most of the western World) gave a little shudder and thought "shit, this won't end well"

I imagine the World thought that.

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Originally Posted by Pierre

I think you mean Hamas. An independent Gaza, evidently peaceful towards Israel, and recognising Israel as a legitimate Jewish state from the off, could have achieved anything they wanted.

Wishful thinking as Hugh's telegram evidences. I appreciate that life is easier when we can label countries as goodies and baddies but the evidence doesn't support this.

[Sephiroth]

That begs the next question. What happens when/if Palestine (aka West Bank) elect a Hamas administration? That is assuming they hold elections at all - being so democratic and that?

If Hamas win an election in the West Bank, the October 2023 lot will give something for Israel to worry about.