Russia has invaded Ukraine

[thenry]

A little has happened since the last post. Trump decreased a window for a ceasefire

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c707zrrd7xqo

And now Russia is showing they aren't in it for peace

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-ord...ments-13405255

I know the majority of you will just knock Trump for being a fool to begin with but having offered an olive branch rather than barking orders what happens next will be interesting.

He is a fool to begin with, but at least he has seen through Putin now.

I don't understand how Putin and Russia have this hold on people where they cannot see them for what they are. We've had years of saying Ukraine was provoking Russia and blaming the West for not ending this war. America halts arms shipments and attempts to force Ukraine into a peace deal, and Ukraine largely complies, only for Russia to stall and then keep hitting civilian targets. As Trump says he has tried many times to get Russia to agree, Putin strings him along and then bombs a hospital the next day.

Why was Trump surprised by this? Why do people think Russia wants a peaceful settlement? The clue they don't is when they invaded in 2014 and when they invaded in 2022. It's proven when they keep bombing residential areas in Ukraine.

Putin only understands force. The only way this war ends is when the cost of continuing it is too high for him, either politically or economically. That is not sped up by weakening Ukraine, so he thinks he can take more of it.

[thenry]

It's not a hold as such. I just respect they live a different way. History suggests it's their land too.

Originally Posted by thenry

It's not a hold as such. I just respect they live a different way. History suggests it's their land too.

Which is whose land?

I would assume he means Russia.
Afaik, Ukraine was part of Russia/USSR/etc for most of the previous 200 or more years before it became independant in the early 1990's.

Originally Posted by thenry

It's not a hold as such. I just respect they live a different way. History suggests it's their land too.

That "different way" seems to be bombing the crap out of civilians…

Originally Posted by Paul

I would assume he means Russia.
Afaik, Ukraine was part of Russia/USSR/etc for most of the previous 200 or more years before it became independant in the early 1990's.

Ukraine was part of the Russian empire, for which the title ‘Union of Soviet Socialist Republics’ was a communist euphemism. But, if you go back far enough, Kyiv was a major city when Moscow was still a swamp. The Rus, as a people group, actually originate in the area known as Ukraine, and spread into what we now know as Russia. This is the base justification Putin uses for wanting to bring Ukraine under his control (and why any claim to only the Russian speaking south and east is an outright lie - the claim that it’s Russian land extends at least as far as the modern western border of Ukraine and quite possibly some way further west again). But by his logic it should be Kyiv and its people controlling Russia, not the other way around.

Notwithstanding any of the above, Ukraine has long since developed a distinct culture and language that is Slavic but not Russian. Putin’s pretexts for extending his influence make no more sense than those put forward by Hitler in the 1930s.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

Which is whose land?

Whose history? Ukraine existed for many years before Russia. Moscow was still just an area of swamp.

Chris's post although not strictly accurate is a general account.