Pair guilty of cutting down Sycamore Gap tree

Originally Posted by thenry

This

Idiots don’t become legends. Idiots become infamous, or notorious. Perhaps both.

These two are A-grade, ocean-going idiots.

[thenry]

If you say so

Originally Posted by thenry

If you say so

Guessing you didn’t bother to read any of the details of the case then.

But sure, go on thinking that destroying something you know is meaningful to an enormous number of people, and then laughing about it on social media, somehow means these are just your regular mad geezers who you just know are a great laff down the local on a Friday night.

[thenry]

I don't know what you're on about.

[Pierre]

Stupid, idiotic, yes.

4 years inside, no.

Ridiculous, Pakistani rape gang participants have received similar.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Stupid, idiotic, yes.

4 years inside, no.

Ridiculous, Pakistani rape gang participants have received similar.

In a criminal damage case the sentencing range is determined by the financial loss. Their defence accepted it was in excess of £5,000 (The National Trust has spent 10s of £ks on remedial work with more to come, and English Heritage will spend around £7k repairing Hadrian’s Wall, which is a bargain considering it’s 2,000 years old and a world heritage site).

The cultural significance of the tree and the Wall and the fact they bragged about it to their mates were aggravating factors.

Rape gang offences are another matter entirely and ought to be dealt with rather more seriously than they are.

Originally Posted by thenry

I don't know what you're on about.

Let me clarify. They are not legends, just idiots.
Only a fool would consider them to be legends of any sort.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

4 years inside, no.

Dont forget the 3 months as well.
It does seems a bit OTT, even for idiots like them.

[thenry]

That's your opinion. Written in history will be their names associated with the tree.

[nomadking]

Nothing special about the tree. In any other location or even just viewed from a different angle, it's just a tree. A clue is in the term "Gap". It's the "gap" that makes it anything.
Is there any evidence that many people knew about it before the appearance in the film?

Sentencing guidelines
Offence range: Discharge – 4 years’ custody
...
For criminal damage over £5,000, around a fifth of offenders each received either a
community sentence, a suspended sentence, or were sentenced to immediate custody (see
figure 5). Over the last few years, the use of community sentences for this offence has
decreased, from 37 per cent in 2013 to 22 per cent in 2016
...
Criminal damage over £5,000 has a higher statutory maximum sentence; six months’
custody when the offence is tried summarily, or 10 years when tried on indictment. Since
2011, the average custodial sentence length (mean) for this offence has remained within the
range of five to seven months. During the same period, the median has ranged from two to
four months.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Nothing special about the tree. In any other location or even just viewed from a different angle, it's just a tree. A clue is in the term "Gap". It's the "gap" that makes it anything.
Is there any evidence that many people knew about it before the appearance in the film?

No such evidence is required.

It has a value well in excess of £5k *now* - prosecution and defence agreed so. That’s all that’s necessary for the offences to be dealt with on the more serious scale for criminal damage.

It is also relevant that the National Trust and English Heritage have now spent far in excess of this on mitigating measures.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

No such evidence is required.

It has a value well in excess of £5k *now* - prosecution and defence agreed so. That’s all that’s necessary for the offences to be dealt with on the more serious scale for criminal damage.

It is also relevant that the National Trust and English Heritage have now spent far in excess of this on mitigating measures.

Average range of sentence for others has been 5 to 7 months. Upper range of guidelines is 4 years, and that might be for damage well in excess of £1m. These are the official CPS and sentencing guidelines.
If you viewed the tree from 90 degrees from how it's normally pictured, it would just be a tree with no special meaning.
What mitigating measures, and what have they got to do with any damage?
The sentencing was way out of proportion and arises from the hysteria surrounding events.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Average range of sentence for others has been 5 to 7 months. Upper range of guidelines is 4 years, and that might be for damage well in excess of £1m. These are the official CPS and sentencing guidelines.
If you viewed the tree from 90 degrees from how it's normally pictured, it would just be a tree with no special meaning.
What mitigating measures, and what have they got to do with any damage?
The sentencing was way out of proportion and arises from the hysteria surrounding events.

Before we go any further, did you watch the sentencing hearing? Because a qualified crown court judge explained exactly, in considerable detail, how she arrived at the sentence, with reference to the sentencing guidelines, that (I take a wild guess) she understands significantly better than you do …

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by thenry

That's your opinion. Written in history will be their names associated with the tree.

That tree will be forgotten in 20 years and so will their names by association, it's a weird idea anyway, they give up years of their lives and a range rover just to get their names remembered for one of the lamest crimes in history, these leg ends are hardly the Krays or Jimmy Saville

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

Before we go any further, did you watch the sentencing hearing? Because a qualified crown court judge explained exactly, in considerable detail, how she arrived at the sentence, with reference to the sentencing guidelines, that (I take a wild guess) she understands significantly better than you do …

It was well outside of the sentencing guidelines.

It was no such thing, as you’d understand if you’d listened to a subject matter expert explaining it rather than skim-reading a few documents off the internet and assuming you know best.