The gender ideology thread

[Russ]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

If gender is an opinion, does that mean others hold the right to disagree and not conform or humour the opinion on the holder?

Thsi isn't aimed solely at Russ by ther way - this is open to everyone to answer. I'm interested to see what others think here.

I did say for lack of a better word - as Chris says some see it as far more than a belief, to them it’s reality, a fact. I see it as an opinion and I’m happy to respect that opinion until should a day come when it becomes forced on me.

Nobody should be forced to have any opinion imposed on them and I think the recent legal ruling puts up a very strong barrier. The trouble there though is often if you state that you don’t share the opinion, there’s no debate, there’s no open dialogue, pull down the shutters - you’re a bigot.

And that is wrong.

I just want everyone's decision about their sexuality or leanings to be respected by everyone else and for them to be left alone about their choice. Basically just mind your OWN business.

[Jaymoss]

I can accept they feel how they feel but I refuse to "respect" their mental illness sorry

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I can accept they feel how they feel but I refuse to "respect" their mental illness sorry

I can imagine some members piling in on you here! Rather than 'mental illness' it seems to me that these so-called "non-binary" people are suffering an aberration; maybe mental, maybe genetic. The mental side should be treated (but also needs investigation) and the genetic side investigated if this is a possibility.

[Jaymoss]

If I can accept how they all feel anyone else should accept how I feel too . I do not need my views to be respected. I do not like how being offended has become such a big deal. People should grow a pair (see what I did there)

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

If I can accept how they all feel anyone else should accept how I feel too . I do not need my views to be respected. I do not like how being offended has become such a big deal. People should grow a pair (see what I did there)

Ah - but you didn't take it far enough.

The famous limerick concludes: ".... and they argued all night as to who had the right to do what, and with which and to whom".

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ah - but you didn't take it far enough.

The famous limerick concludes: ".... and they argued all night as to who had the right to do what, and with which and to whom".

However I realise as a normal heterosexual male and white my opinion matters least in 2025

Originally Posted by Maggy

Basically just mind your OWN business.

The problem is many of them dont mind their *own* business, they try and force it on the rest of us.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

However I realise as a normal heterosexual male and white my opinion matters least in 2025

Originally Posted by Paul

The problem is many of them dont mind their *own* business, they try and force it on the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

However I realise as a normal heterosexual male and white my opinion matters least in 2025

Originally Posted by Itshim

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[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not said it for sympathy or that it effects me in any way in real life just stating I know the score nowadays . Do you think I am wrong?

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by Russ

Nobody should be forced to have any opinion imposed on them

This is a very welcomed change to the Russ of yester-year, who argued the opposite side of this debate when I tried to make the above point. Yes, it was regarding a different topic, but the principle remains the same, which is not forcing one's opinion on another.

Originally Posted by Russ

Agreed. Unless someone can prove my way is wrong for my kids I'll carry on the way I know best.

Moving back to the topic...

Originally Posted by Maggy

I just want everyone's decision about their sexuality or leanings to be respected by everyone else and for them to be left alone about their choice. Basically just mind your OWN business.

Yes, but with important distinctions. Respecting a person doesn;t require agreeing with every belief they hold. It means treating them with dignity, listening without contempt, and engaging honestly.

That said, respect for people is not the same as submission to all ideas or compelled agreement.

Where should the boundaries be?

I believe respect is appropriate when:

• The individual shares their views without forcing them on others.
• There’s room for open discussion, including disagreement.
• They advocate for rights without infringing on others’ freedoms.

I also believe respect becomes problematic when:

• Disagreement is labelled as hate or as Russ quite rightly pointed out, bigotry.
• People are pressured into affirming beliefs they don’t share.
• Institutions enforce compelled speech or identity-based conformity.
• Questioning ideology is treated as moral failure.

That’s when respectful dialogue morphs into ideological enforcement and that’s not respect, that;s compliance under pressure or fear.

To go a step further, when does opinion cross into militant demand?

It crosses the line when it shifts from:

• “Please understand my expereince”

to:

• “You must affirm my belief or you’re morally wrong.”

This kind of demand uses guilt, shame, or power to extract agreement. It undermines open conversation and creates an environment of fear and silence rather than understanding.

We can (and should ) acknowledge people’s right to identify how they wish. But mutual respect means others have a right to disagree, to ask questions, and to draw reasonable lines, especially in law, medicine, education, and policy.

To sum it up:

• Respect the person by listening and treating them with dignity.
• Evaluate the belief like any other... on its merits.
• Reject the demand for forced agreement if it compromises truth, fairness, or free expression.

Disagreement is not harm. And respectful boundaries protect everyone’s right to be heard on all sides.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

This is a very welcomed change to the Russ of yester-year, who argued the opposite side of this debate when I tried to make the above point. Yes, it was regarding a different topic, but the principle remains the same, which is not forcing one's opinion on another.



Moving back to the topic...



Yes, but with important distinctions. Respecting a person doesn;t require agreeing with every belief they hold. It means treating them with dignity, listening without contempt, and engaging honestly.

That said, respect for people is not the same as submission to all ideas or compelled agreement.

Where should the boundaries be?

I believe respect is appropriate when:

• The individual shares their views without forcing them on others.
• There’s room for open discussion, including disagreement.
• They advocate for rights without infringing on others’ freedoms.

I also believe respect becomes problematic when:

• Disagreement is labelled as hate or as Russ quite rightly pointed out, bigotry.
• People are pressured into affirming beliefs they don’t share.
• Institutions enforce compelled speech or identity-based conformity.
• Questioning ideology is treated as moral failure.

That’s when respectful dialogue morphs into ideological enforcement and that’s not respect, that;s compliance under pressure or fear.

To go a step further, when does opinion cross into militant demand?

It crosses the line when it shifts from:

• “Please understand my expereince”

to:

• “You must affirm my belief or you’re morally wrong.”

This kind of demand uses guilt, shame, or power to extract agreement. It undermines open conversation and creates an environment of fear and silence rather than understanding.

We can (and should ) acknowledge people’s right to identify how they wish. But mutual respect means others have a right to disagree, to ask questions, and to draw reasonable lines, especially in law, medicine, education, and policy.

To sum it up:

• Respect the person by listening and treating them with dignity.
• Evaluate the belief like any other... on its merits.
• Reject the demand for forced agreement if it compromises truth, fairness, or free expression.

Disagreement is not harm. And respectful boundaries protect everyone’s right to be heard on all sides.

Be nice if it worked here.

[jem]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

However I realise as a normal heterosexual male and white my opinion matters least in 2025

No, no, as a white heterosexual male, as indeed, I am, it's not that your opinion matters less, it matters the same as everyone else's. No more, and no less.