Russia has invaded Ukraine
13-03-2025, 11:12
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#3301
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Remoaner
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Russia has rejected the ceasefire btw
Last edited by Damien; 13-03-2025 at 11:34.
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13-03-2025, 11:38
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#3302
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Russia has rejected the ceasefire btw
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13-03-2025, 18:20
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#3303
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Meanwhile…
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14-03-2025, 20:02
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#3304
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Ultimately - leaving aside whether Russia have any intention of signing - the optics of Trump pushing Ukraine and Russia to the table and an immediate deal is likely difficult for Putin. Whether he gets anything else from Trump or not is likely irrelevant so long as he can indicate he has.
Appreciate that’s of no concern to the “every inch plus Crimea” brigade of Ukrainiacs but any settlement was always likely to be one that Putin can sell at home as a success for the “special military operation”.
At this point it’s possible Putin would prefer to push the Ukrainian incursion out of Russia to remove it from the negotiations.
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14-03-2025, 20:15
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#3305
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Ultimately - leaving aside whether Russia have any intention of signing - the optics of Trump pushing Ukraine and Russia to the table and an immediate deal is likely difficult for Putin. Whether he gets anything else from Trump or not is likely irrelevant so long as he can indicate he has.
Appreciate that’s of no concern to the “every inch plus Crimea” brigade of Ukrainiacs but any settlement was always likely to be one that Putin can sell at home as a success for the “special military operation”.
At this point it’s possible Putin would prefer to push the Ukrainian incursion out of Russia to remove it from the negotiations.
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I’m happy to be a Ukrainiac - regardless of the tactical difficulty, Ukraine’s borders are established in international law. European states slicing territory off each other has never gone well in the past and settling for it now in the name of realpolitik sets a dangerous modern precedent.
As far as the ceasefire offer goes, I think Putin’s bluff has been called. He has maximalist aims of his own, and half the Donbas plus a few extras doesn’t come close. I predict his list of difficulties and things that still need to be ironed out will grow longer and be forever tantalisingly out of reach.
And FWIW I think Putin has got quite a lot out of Trump, including a blinding of Ukraine’s ability to see what the Russians were doing for just long enough for Russia to effectively end the Kursk incursion. The timing of the beginning and the end of that withdrawal of support is far too convenient.
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17-03-2025, 14:29
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#3306
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Trump set to talk with Putin about ‘dividing up assets’
In further comments, President Trump indicated that the US will not object to Russia maintaining control over occupied areas of Ukraine.
“We’ll be talking about land. We’ll be talking about power plants,” Trump said before talks with Putin that he said are set to take place tomorrow.
“I think we have a lot of it already discussed very much by both sides, Ukraine and Russia. We’re already talking about that, dividing up certain assets.
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https://www.thetimes.com/world/russi...news-38qzd6mmh
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17-03-2025, 14:52
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#3307
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
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Behaving exactly as instructed by his handler.
Europe, including the UK, needs to start moving away from being so dependant on the US. Portugal seems to have started this by reconsidering their F35 procurement.
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17-03-2025, 15:27
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#3308
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Surely if Trump was a Russian puppet the first iteration would have been suitable for Putin to agree to?
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17-03-2025, 16:30
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#3309
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Surely if Trump was a Russian puppet the first iteration would have been suitable for Putin to agree to?
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Surely they wouldn't be that obvious?
They'll find a reason for it to be Ukraine's fault...
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17-03-2025, 16:40
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#3310
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Surely they wouldn't be that obvious?
They'll find a reason for it to be Ukraine's fault...
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Do they really need one? For Trump and Putin’s respective supporters it’s success. For their opponents it’s America and Russia carving up Ukraine and sharing the spoils. Blaming Ukraine (and for what?) seems like an unnecessary step (and for what audience?).
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17-03-2025, 16:57
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#3311
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Sad Doig Fan!
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Behaving exactly as instructed by his handler.
Europe, including the UK, needs to start moving away from being so dependant on the US. Portugal seems to have started this by reconsidering their F35 procurement.
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Canada and Turkey are also reconsidering apparently.
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17-03-2025, 17:45
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#3312
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Surely if Trump was a Russian puppet the first iteration would have been suitable for Putin to agree to?
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They were suitable but given the speed that Trump acquiesced, Putin saw how easily his orange puppet could now be manipulated beyond even his initial wild dreams!
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17-03-2025, 17:54
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#3313
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Canada and Turkey are also reconsidering apparently.
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Switzerland as well.
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17-03-2025, 17:56
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#3314
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
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Why would you think Russia would relinquish the territory it has gained?
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17-03-2025, 17:56
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#3315
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Sad Doig Fan!
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
They were suitable but given the speed that Trump acquiesced, Putin saw how easily his orange puppet could now be manipulated beyond even his initial wild dreams!
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So far Ukraine are the only ones who have to make concessions even though when negotiations started it was said both would have to make consessions.
I await the first concession Russia will have to make for the Trump team. Not holding my breath though.
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