Russia has invaded Ukraine

[jfman]

It’s not the opposing those things that makes someone bloodthirsty it’s the forever war element as the only alternative to “every inch plus Crimea, and Putin in The Hague”.

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s not the opposing those things that makes someone bloodthirsty it’s the forever war element as the only alternative to “every inch plus Crimea, and Putin in The Hague”.

Observing that Ukraine can never be secure while Russia controls so much of its Black Sea coast, and especially Crimea, is not bloodthirsty or forever-war-ish. It is a statement of objective strategic fact. Ukraine has regained freedom to operate cargo vessels in the western Black Sea by bombing the Russian navy out of Sevastopol. In the event of a truce, Russia can and will rebuild its naval presence there (and it will doubtless also sail a great many ships in from elsewhere to rapidly make up for its losses).

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Observing that Ukraine can never be secure while Russia controls so much of its Black Sea coast, and especially Crimea, is not bloodthirsty or forever-war-ish. It is a statement of objective strategic fact. Ukraine has regained freedom to operate cargo vessels in the western Black Sea by bombing the Russian navy out of Sevastopol. In the event of a truce, Russia can and will rebuild its naval presence there (and it will doubtless also sail a great many ships in from elsewhere to rapidly make up for its losses).

Taken to extreme Ukraine can never be secure while it borders Russia.

That doesn’t mean it makes any objective strategic sense to fight a war until one, or the other, doesn’t exist. Especially in the absence of skills or resources for the one left to be Ukraine.

In the event of a truce the onus is on everyone to take all steps they reasonably can to offer Ukraine security positioning themselves to readily mobilise in the event of future conflict.

But they won’t, because it was never about that and it’ll cost too much money. Donations to Ukraine are out and cheap Russian gas is in. Won’t be long before London reunites the oligarchs with their billions and asks them to invest. Don’t hold it against us, please. A big boy made us do it.

Originally Posted by jfman

Taken to extreme Ukraine can never be secure while it borders Russia.

That doesn’t mean it makes any objective strategic sense to fight a war until one, or the other, doesn’t exist. Especially in the absence of skills or resources for the one left to be Ukraine.

In the event of a truce the onus is on everyone to take all steps they reasonably can to offer Ukraine security positioning themselves to readily mobilise in the event of future conflict.

But they won’t, because it was never about that and it’ll cost too much money. Donations to Ukraine are out and cheap Russian gas is in. Won’t be long before London reunites the oligarchs with their billions and asks them to invest. Don’t hold it against us, please. A big boy made us do it.

So close to getting it...

Taken to extremes, no country can be secure whilst they border Russia* - you're right...**.

*must be why they all want to join NATO

**because Putin has said they should be part of Greater Russia

[jfman]

It’s already been demonstrated that Putin’s ability to deliver on his ambitions is weak - which isn’t to say anyone should be passive about the risk. As I said above - there’s a responsibility to Ukraine on everyone who wants to keep the war going and on America should the politicial landscape change.

Ukraine, and the Ukranian families who lost their sons, should be rewarded rather than looted.

[1andrew1]

Trump turning the knife in Zelenskyy's back.

The US has cut off intelligence-sharing with Kyiv in a move that could seriously hamper the Ukrainian military’s ability to target Russian forces, according to officials familiar with the matter.

The move follows the decision on Monday by the Trump administration to suspend military aid deliveries to Ukraine and comes after a dramatic breakdown in relations between the US president and Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

US intelligence co-operation has been essential for Ukraine’s ability to identify and strike Russian military targets.

Three officials familiar with the decision confirmed that Washington had frozen intelligence channels with Kyiv.

https://www.ft.com/content/c58fccea-...a-0185b7415579

Comrade Trump doing as ordered by his masters ?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Paul

Comrade Trump doing as ordered by his masters ?

Seems we're not the only ones who see Trump as a Russian asset:

https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2025...russian-asset/

A senior Conservative MP has said it is time to consider the “possibility” that the US president is a Kremlin asset.

Graham Stuart, a former Foreign Office minister, issued the comment in response to Donald Trump’s decision to pause all military aid to Ukraine. The extraordinary move comes as the US administration seeks to pressure Volodymyr Zelenskyy to agree to an unconditional ceasefire with Russia.

Commenting on developments, Stuart posted to X: “We have to consider the possibility that president Trump is a Russian asset.

“If so, Trump’s acquisition is the crowning achievement of [Vladimir] Putin’s FSB career — and Europe is on its own.”

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------

This is interesting if it turns out to be correct: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...zed-rcna193700

Russia has proposed to the Trump administration a potential agreement under which the United States would gain some ownership of rare earth minerals and other valuable metals in parts of Ukraine controlled by the Russian military, according to two U.S. officials familiar with intelligence on the matter and another person briefed on the proposal.

It would explain why Trump has no interest in trying to make Putin withdraw from any of the occupied parts of Ukraine.

[jfman]

He was elected with a resounding mandate to end the proxy war in Ukraine. Nobody with any reasonable understanding of the situation on the ground expected Ukraine to get back to it’s 2022 borders never mind 2014.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by jfman

He was elected with a resounding mandate to end the proxy war in Ukraine. Nobody with any reasonable understanding of the situation on the ground expected Ukraine to get back to it’s 2022 borders never mind 2014.

A resounding mandate? 49.9% vs 48.3% isn't a resounding anything

Originally Posted by jfman

He was elected with a resounding mandate to end the proxy war in Ukraine. Nobody with any reasonable understanding of the situation on the ground expected Ukraine to get back to it’s 2022 borders never mind 2014.

It’s as if Putin’s in the room with us…

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It’s as if Putin’s in the room with us…

Quick, lock all the windows!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It’s as if Putin’s in the room with us…

If Harris won the same amount of votes, by the same margin, plus took the House and Senate nobody would quibble over the use of “resounding”.

Nor can it be disputed that this was clearly part of Trump’s policy platform. Something that the Biden administration could (and indeed should) have given thought to while developing an exit strategy for the war.

[RichardCoulter]

Trump has shown fiddling elections isn't beneath him, so I wonder if Putin agreed to help him win on the condition that he did what he's doing now to aid Russia??

[TheDaddy]

Think grok might be in trouble with elmo, it said earlier when asked that there is a 75%- 85% chance that donnie is a putin compromised asset

Stay away from upstairs windows grok, that's my best advice