20-12-2024, 12:02
|
#2581
|
The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,985
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Onshore wind power is the cheapest form of power so if we can get more domestic sources of this and the ability to store it, then bills should start to come down.
|
Bills won't come down until the market is reformed and the grid upgraded
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 13:25
|
#2582
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 68
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 43,471
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf
I noticed something on this last bill that disturbs me a little.
All previous bills gave the unit costs and Standing Charges INCLUSIVE of VAT.
This last one adds the VAT at the end of the bill.
|
All my Octopus bills (since I moved over early this year) have the VAT added separately in the detail page, but inclusive on the summary page.
__________________
Thank you for calling the Abyss.
If you have called to scream, please press 1 to be transferred to the Void, or press 2 to begin your stare.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 15:54
|
#2583
|
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,580
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf
I've just received my latest bill from Scottish Power.
Their mix of supply is as follows:
Gas 68%
Coal 15%
Nuclear 11%
Renewable 0%
Other 6%
So much for the "Green Revolution" that is costing us more on our bills.
|
That makes no sense at all, the last coal powered station shut down a few months ago, and coal only accounted for 0.6% of power over the last 12 months.
__________________
Baby, I was born this way.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 17:03
|
#2584
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
That makes no sense at all, the last coal powered station shut down a few months ago, and coal only accounted for 0.6% of power over the last 12 months.
|
Two aspects about the energy breakdown Taf quoted:
- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it
- it's for a non-green tariff hence no renewables are on it!
The overall UK total power mix for 2023-2024 was:
- Renewable 43%
- Gas 35%
- Nuclear 13%
- Coal 6%
- Other 3%
https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/abou...mance/fuel-mix
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 17:09
|
#2585
|
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,580
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it
- it's for a non-green tariff hence no renewables are on it!
|
1. So old and thus not really relevant to his current bill.
2. Your electricity comes from the same sources, whatever tarrif you are on.
__________________
Baby, I was born this way.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 18:46
|
#2586
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 69
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 10,176
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it
|
It's for 1 Oct 24 to 2 Dec 24.
A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 20:50
|
#2587
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
1. So old and thus not really relevant to his current bill.
2. Your electricity comes from the same sources, whatever tarrif you are on.
|
It is the same source as Taf's bill and has exactly the same percentage breakdown for the non-green tariffs as is Taf does.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 21:00
|
#2588
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf
It's for 1 Oct 24 to 2 Dec 24.
A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.
|
I'm sure the bill is but it is highly unlikely that the fuel breakdown is, as it matches exactly the fuel breakdown breakdown on the website which is labelled 2023-2024.
Good call to mention imports for account for the coal mix.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 22:59
|
#2589
|
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,580
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf
A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.
|
A lot ? Not really.
Imports can account for up to 15% of our electricity (its lower on most days) and a lot of that comes from low carbon sources (Like France which is mostly Nuclear & Hydro, plus Belgium & Norway, which have no coal generation at all). Odd thing as well, on most days we import, we also export, mostly to Ireland.
---------- Post added at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Good call to mention imports for account for the coal mix.
|
Nope, not really. See above.
---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
It is the same source as Taf's bill and has exactly the same percentage breakdown for the non-green tariffs as is Taf does.
|
That is just complete BS.
You cannot separate out the source of peoples electricity like that.
__________________
Baby, I was born this way.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 23:24
|
#2590
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
That is just complete BS.
You cannot separate out the source of peoples electricity like that.
|
That's the industry's way of presenting it and if it was misleading, they would have had Ofgem and the ASA on their case. They've probably spent more time than you and me on considering this matter.
|
|
|
20-12-2024, 23:55
|
#2591
|
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,580
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
That's the industry's way of presenting it and if it was misleading, they would have had Ofgem and the ASA on their case. They've probably spent more time than you and me on considering this matter.
|
You really are as naive as people say.
Its not just misleading, its full on B/S.
Still, yes, I'm sure their marketing execs spent lots of time on it.
__________________
Baby, I was born this way.
|
|
|
21-12-2024, 00:57
|
#2592
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
You really are as naive as people say.
Its not just misleading, its full on B/S.
Still, yes, I'm sure their marketing execs spent lots of time on it.
|
How can the information be better presented?
|
|
|
21-12-2024, 10:10
|
#2593
|
Trollsplatter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
These graphs show the proportion of generation sources that are on the grid as a result of the purchasing decisions made by your electricity supplier.. They don’t in any way reflect the source of the energy actually consumed in your home.
In a sense it’s a bit like a chef force-feeding a vegan a steak but telling him it’s ok because the dinner he actually ordered is still being eaten somewhere in the restaurant.
|
|
|
21-12-2024, 10:32
|
#2594
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,164
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
These graphs show the proportion of generation sources that are on the grid as a result of the purchasing decisions made by your electricity supplier.. They don’t in any way reflect the source of the energy actually consumed in your home.
In a sense it’s a bit like a chef force-feeding a vegan a steak but telling him it’s ok because the dinner he actually ordered is still being eaten somewhere in the restaurant.
|
I don't think anyone's under the illusion that you can trace anyone's electricity to a particular source. At any one time, a house on a green energy tariff could be supplied by electricity generated by gas and one on a non-green tariff could be supplied by renewables.
But that doesn't mean that the fuel breakdowns are bull.
|
|
|
21-12-2024, 10:40
|
#2595
|
Trollsplatter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
|
Re: UK Energy Prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I don't think anyone's under the illusion that you can trace anyone's electricity to a particular source. At any one time, a house on a green energy tariff could be supplied by electricity generated by gas and one on a non-green tariff could be supplied by renewables.
But that doesn't mean that the fuel breakdowns are bull.
|
Oh, I think a very great number of people do think exactly this. Do not underestimate how cheerfully stupid a lot of people are. And I don’t mean that perjoratively - it is simply the case that an excessively large number of people will look at an official chart and take it without any critical engagement at all. If you’re in any doubt, spend just 10 minutes sifting through the content’s of your home town’s Facebook groups.
We just don’t teach critical thinking in our schools. Historically, we taught facts. These days, we teach research and integration. What we don’t do is teach to question and critically evaluate. You have to do an arts degree at university to get anywhere near that. So unless you’re naturally interested in that sort of thing (and the membership of a forum like this is naturally self-selecting in that regard) you have never been exposed to the mental toolkit you need to instinctively challenge the contents of an official graph someone has printed and posted through your door.
Last edited by Chris; 21-12-2024 at 10:44.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:56.
|