Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Itshim

What is the court in the Hague, not being sarcastic

i think it's for war criminals and alike but i was wondering if trials would take place in the country they were arrested in ,and what would be the punnishment

[Taf]

Putin is still on their arrest list.

[Pierre]

It’s bollocks, if they believe this the ICC should issuing an arrest warrant for Zelenskyy too.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s bollocks, if they believe this the ICC should issuing an arrest warrant for Zelenskyy too.

why what has he done?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

why what has he done?

Defended his country militarily from an hostile enemy.

Just like Netanyahu.

[papa smurf]

interesting article in the guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ahu-icc-israel

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

interesting article in the guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ahu-icc-israel

Not really.

Borderline anti-Israel.

Do you not agree that Zelenskyy is as guilty as Netanyahu for war crimes? And if not…why?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Defended his country militarily from an hostile enemy.

Just like Netanyahu.

Has Zelensky been accused of these actions?

Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;

Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);

Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;

Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);

Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/stateme...ituation-state

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not really.

Borderline anti-Israel.

Do you not agree that Zelenskyy is as guilty as Netanyahu for war crimes? And if not…why?

Ukraine has mostly hit military targets. There hasn't been large-scale bombing of civilian areas.

I don't think you can compare dealing with a terrorist group embedded in a civilian area with repelling a land invasion by a conventional military with a conventional military.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Has Zelensky been accused of these actions?

I don’t know, launching rockets into Russia he may well be…..

But let’s see…

Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;

Any proof? Aid has continuously been let in…..it’s been stolen by Hamas……but it’s been let in.

Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Seems a bit vague for a war zone, considering they’ve tried to move and warn civilians away from targeted attacks, I don’t see how it’s “wilfully”.

Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);

I’ll merge these two, again the terms “wilfully and intentionally” in the end it’s an accusation because you can’t evidence it, it’s just hyperbole.

Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;

You can’t prove starvation caused by Israel, caused by HAMAS maybe……

Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);

Proof?

Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).

Such as?


In any event, Hugh where are you?

Are you are terrorist sympathiser? Tough question.

Do you believe in Israel’s right to exist as a nation and to defend itself?

Do you believe it should remove all of its enemies and protect its citizens after the genocidal attack of Oct 7th?

And as a military veteran of the Cold War, you were there ready to retaliate against anyone that threatened the U.K.

Do you deny Israel that action?

---------- Post added at 22:30 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Ukraine has mostly hit military targets.

So has Israel

The fact that their military targets are embedded, by design, in civilian areas doesn’t change anything.

I don't think you can compare dealing with a terrorist group embedded in a civilian area with repelling a land invasion by a conventional military with a conventional military.

I think, you can.


There is no moral difference.

Originally Posted by Pierre

The fact that their military targets are embedded, by design, in civilian areas doesn’t change anything.



I think, you can.


There is no moral difference.

The civilian deaths are why he is in this position.

Zelensky and Ukraine have been responsible for very few civilian deaths. Hardly any.

That's the difference.

You can argue how you effectively pursue a war against a terrorist ground embedded in a civilian population but that's a different argument as to why Zelensky doesn't have an arrest warrant against him.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

The civilian deaths are why he is in this position.

Zelensky and Ukraine have been responsible for very few civilian deaths. Hardly any.

That's the difference.

You can argue how you effectively pursue a war against a terrorist ground embedded in a civilian population but that's a different argument as to why Zelensky doesn't have an arrest warrant against him.

The civilian deaths are Hamas’s fault. Plus it’s very difficult to separate civilians from combatants.

Israel, have done all they can to avoid civilian deaths, Hamas not so much.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The civilian deaths are Hamas’s fault. Plus it’s very difficult to separate civilians from combatants.

Israel, have done all they can to avoid civilian deaths, Hamas not so much.

Can you provide verified evidence to supoort that statement ?

Considering Israel’s well documented weaponry and intelligence capabilities there’s been far too many indiscriminate hits on civilian locations (apartment block in Beirut just this morning as just one example)

Going back to the guardian article is it anti Israel? No, is it anti Netanyahu ? Possibly. the point raised is valid. War will always be viewed via different optics , more and more nations rightly or wrongly are either believing or starting to believe that Israel are showing themselves to have little to no thought in protecting civilians in this conflict.

Israel has a right to protect itself , but not at any cost. Those who question Israel’s tactics have a right to do so and that doesn’t make them terrorist sympathisers. You’re a bright person Pierre , bit of a wind up merchant at times. You do yourself a disservice mind

I have to agree - it’s quite a leap from

"Has Zelensky been accused of these actions?"

to

"Are you are terrorist sympathiser?"

Perhaps I'm just here to counter the narrative...

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Can you provide verified evidence to supoort that statement ?

Well I’m not on the front line, but I can provide other expert opinions

https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions...-own-soldiers/

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-impl...pinion-1865613


I could post many more , and no doubt you find many the say the opposite.

Israel has a right to protect itself , but not at any cost.

That where I disagree, Israel must win at all costs.