"Not my King" idiots

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

There's nothing naive about wanting people to get ahead on merit rather than because of what school they went to, the problem isn't with yachting and horse racing

So true.

If you remove the monarchy, the system that it is the keystone of will not crumble overnight. It will, however, degrade over time. The removal of the structures e.g. titles, honours, etc. that the monarchy underwrites will eventually lead to a society where you progress more through your own efforts rather that the fortune (or otherwise) of your ancestors.

The other benefit is the decoupling of the church and state. Imposing a chosen theological norm on a modern democracy is so outdated.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

There's nothing naive about wanting people to get ahead on merit rather than because of what school they went to, the problem isn't with yachting and horse racing

Which I didn’t say.

What I said was, assuming that that system of informal patronage enjoyed by the upper echelons of the class system would crumble *just because* of the absence of the monarchy is naive, because it is. This isn’t Bridgerton, social life for toffs and aristos doesn’t revolve around, or depend upon, life at court.

---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

So true.

If you remove the monarchy, the system that it is the keystone of will not crumble overnight. It will, however, degrade over time. The removal of the structures e.g. titles, honours, etc. that the monarchy underwrites will eventually lead to a society where you progress more through your own efforts rather that the fortune (or otherwise) of your ancestors.

The other benefit is the decoupling of the church and state. Imposing a chosen theological norm on a modern democracy is so outdated.

The World Economic Forum disagrees with you.

6 of the top 10 countries in their global social mobility index are constitutional monarchies. The UK stands at 21 in the global rankings; the USA, which notably fought a war to remove itself from British Crown influence, is 27th.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global...ity_Report.pdf

All of these countries, including the USA, have formal systems of patronage as well as a multitude of unseen, informal social networks through which the rich and powerful keep the wealth and the power amongst themselves and those they approve of.

Remove the monarchy and watch how it makes absolutely zero difference to any of that, in 5, 10 or 50 years.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The removal of the structures e.g. titles, honours, etc. that the monarchy underwrites will eventually lead to a society where you progress more through your own efforts rather that the fortune (or otherwise) of your ancestors.

I don't think it would.

You think removing the monarchy will prevent nepotism?

I think not.

Didn't someone actually/physically remove the monarchy? Now what was his name?

Can’t remember … after a decade or so they decided it wasn’t such a great idea after all and invited the monarchy back.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Which I didn’t say.

What I said was, assuming that that system of informal patronage enjoyed by the upper echelons of the class system would crumble *just because* of the absence of the monarchy is naive, because it is. This isn’t Bridgerton, social life for toffs and aristos doesn’t revolve around, or depend upon, life at court.

---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------



The World Economic Forum disagrees with you.

6 of the top 10 countries in their global social mobility index are constitutional monarchies. The UK stands at 21 in the global rankings; the USA, which notably fought a war to remove itself from British Crown influence, is 27th.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global...ity_Report.pdf

All of these countries, including the USA, have formal systems of patronage as well as a multitude of unseen, informal social networks through which the rich and powerful keep the wealth and the power amongst themselves and those they approve of.

Remove the monarchy and watch how it makes absolutely zero difference to any of that, in 5, 10 or 50 years.

Just because these countries may have, like us, an historical legacy to contend with does not make it wrong to address it. You would also do well not to use the USA as any kind of benchmark to aspire to

The points you fail to address are ones of principle & fairness. These goals are ones we should strive for as well as wealth & success. The proposition at the core of monarchy is essentially immoral no matter how you dress it up in expediency, populism and inertia. The point about the replacement of titled privilege with wealth-based power is a good one. However, in a system where there is no feudal legacy to contend with, you have a much easier task to change the system to address the abuse of wealth.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Chris

Can’t remember … after a decade or so they decided it wasn’t such a great idea after all and invited the monarchy back.

O yes that's when King Charles supporters brought votes , literally. from the property owners in a town . Great model. Labour and other parties, rule with the support of the minority of British voters

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The points you fail to address are ones of principle & fairness. These goals are ones we should strive for as well as wealth & success.

You’ve already shown that you are anti-wealth?

[thenry]

I believe people are just sad there's no Queen Diana. The stunning lady made hearts skip a beat, a powerful lady. Neither King Charles nor Queen Camilla possess such power.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by thenry

I believe people are just sad there's no Queen Diana. The stunning lady made hearts skip a beat, a powerful lady. Neither King Charles nor Queen Camilla possess such power.

I don’t believe anyone thinks that. Diana is just a distant footnote.

She died 27 years ago.
Unless your're in your mid 30's or older, you likely wont even remember her.