General : Virgin TV (2024)

[Media Boy UK]

Originally Posted by epsilon

Of course you explain your comments, you keep having to explain your comments because people don't agree with you. Is EE really "throwing everything in with Sky"? it looks as if they are exiting the TV business and simply retailing Sky. Comcast is, primarily, a cable company. Hardly surprising that Satellite isn't the best fit for them in the long term.

It doesn't matter if you are persuaded by my "conclusions", if a service provider keeps withdrawing parts of the service, the customer will eventually say, "that's it, no more". It seems to be the way things are going with Virgin.

Sure, it's a discussion forum but you insist on preaching that your vision of the streaming future is the only way forward. Despite people telling you they don't want that.

---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------


The Create & Craft streaming apps on smart tvs and all major streaming platforms don't seem to have helped them very much...

It been a loss making company since it started in 2015.

In 2015 to 2020 Hochanda loss £19,452,460 .

Then Hochanda appoint an administrator in 2020 then Craft Store TV was sold to Hochanda Global and Hochanda Global took over C&C in 2022 but has been making a loss of £16,312,553 since 2020.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by Media Boy UK

It been a loss making company since it started in 2015.

In 2015 to 2020 Hochanda loss £19,452,460 .

Then Hochanda appoint an administrator in 2020 then Craft Store TV was sold to Hochanda Global and Hochanda Global took over C&C in 2022 but has been making a loss of £16,312,553 since 2020.

I know. It started off with Hochanda selling small relatively cheap products from a large number of suppliers. Obviously not making enough money from low priced items they later switched to selling much more expensive items from a smaller number of suppliers. The trouble with that is that crafters don't necessarily want to fork out large sums of money for a hobby. A poor business model perhaps? Not really a similar situation to the other broadcasters which Old Boy is expecting to fail in the coming months...

[Media Boy UK]

Originally Posted by epsilon

I know. It started off with Hochanda selling small relatively cheap products from a large number of suppliers. Obviously not making enough money from low priced items they later switched to selling much more expensive items from a smaller number of suppliers. The trouble with that is that crafters don't necessarily want to fork out large sums of money for a hobby. A poor business model perhaps? Not really a similar situation to the other broadcasters which Old Boy is expecting to fail in the coming months...

The channel is showing right now a scaner and their want over £566 for it. But you can pay over four months.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Media Boy UK

Why did Tiny Pop return to other network for then if streaming THAT good?

It’s financials that will determine how long the smaller channels are able to survive. I would imagine that Tiny Pop is able still to make a profit at present. What I’m saying is that as income from advertisements diminishes over time, they will have to close. They won’t continue to run at a loss.

---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Originally Posted by epsilon

Of course you explain your comments, you keep having to explain your comments because people don't agree with you. Is EE really "throwing everything in with Sky"? it looks as if they are exiting the TV business and simply retailing Sky. Comcast is, primarily, a cable company. Hardly surprising that Satellite isn't the best fit for them in the long term.

It doesn't matter if you are persuaded by my "conclusions", if a service provider keeps withdrawing parts of the service, the customer will eventually say, "that's it, no more". It seems to be the way things are going with Virgin.

Sure, it's a discussion forum but you insist on preaching that your vision of the streaming future is the only way forward. Despite people telling you they don't want that.

I find this incredible, I really do! I get it that some people disagree with me, but expecting me to explain over and again exactly what I mean and why I think that puzzles me. Never mind.

I think we are saying the same thing about EE - their viewers are being shunted over to Sky Stream.

As far as customers voting with their feet because some minor features are no longer available is concerned, I would simply ask if you know any other company that offers these features? You know as well as I do what the answer to that is.

I am not ‘preaching’ to anyone. Are you preaching to me when you argue that everything will continue as now because that’s just what (some) people want? Of course not. We are simply exchanging views, aren’t we?

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I find this incredible, I really do! I get it that some people disagree with me, but expecting me to explain over and again exactly what I mean and why I think that puzzles me. Never mind.

Although that isn't what I said. You seem to spend a lot of time discussing your opinions with people who have disagreed with you and don't seem to get a chance to discuss your thoughts with people who agree. Maybe there's a reason for that.. hmm!

As far as customers voting with their feet because some minor features are no longer available is concerned, I would simply ask if you know any other company that offers these features? You know as well as I do what the answer to that is.

A massive oversimplification. Maybe they are minor features to you but to other people they may be the reason why they are still customers. Take the features away and perhaps they won't be. It isn't just that though, Virgin has been deliberately withholding apps from the V6 for a long time now. Customers have made alternative arrangement and now find themselves using the V6 less and other devices more. Take away the only features that are keeping those customers happy and don't be surprised when the become ex-customers.

I am not ‘preaching’ to anyone. Are you preaching to me when you argue that everything will continue as now because that’s just what (some) people want? Of course not. We are simply exchanging views, aren’t we?

I've seen a lot of posts recently where you suggest that people will just have to go with the flow and accept the changes. I've seen responses from people explaining to you why they won't do this and giving you their reasons. You still seem to continue with the suck it up mantra, at this point it crosses the line from discussion and enters the territory of preaching. Whether you see it that way or not.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by epsilon

Although that isn't what I said. You seem to spend a lot of time discussing your opinions with people who have disagreed with you and don't seem to get a chance to discuss your thoughts with people who agree. Maybe there's a reason for that.. hmm!

There's a reason for that. Those that agree with me are intimidated into silence due to the incessant trolling and baiting they have witnesed around these debates. I am happy to debate with anyone, but I'm done debating with trolls. I spend a lot less time coming to this forum for that reason.

Originally Posted by epsilon

A massive oversimplification. Maybe they are minor features to you but to other people they may be the reason why they are still customers. Take the features away and perhaps they won't be. It isn't just that though, Virgin has been deliberately withholding apps from the V6 for a long time now. Customers have made alternative arrangement and now find themselves using the V6 less and other devices more. Take away the only features that are keeping those customers happy and don't be surprised when the become ex-customers.

Notvat all. There is no complication here.Your point is a pedantic one, because whether you view the features to be minor or major, the conclusion is the same. If the V6 gets withdrawn, some may leave Virgin it's true, but no other provider offers these TiCVo features. That was the point.

Originally Posted by epsilon

I've seen a lot of posts recently where you suggest that people will just have to go with the flow and accept the changes. I've seen responses from people explaining to you why they won't do this and giving you their reasons. You still seem to continue with the suck it up mantra, at this point it crosses the line from discussion and enters the territory of preaching. Whether you see it that way or not.

You've completely missed the point. If the current offer is withdrawn, there is nowhere to go for a similar system.

[cheekyangus]

Debating isn’t repeating the same thing for years on end with no taking on board of responses and hoping everyone else falls into line with a World view.

Things in life rarely turn out the way you want or expect, it’s pretty much always a mix of both sides (if there are two, sometimes there are quite a few), including the personally unpalatable.

Some people keep quiet simply because they know it will set someone off and it’s not worth it, it doesn’t mean you are in the majority because you are a vocal lone voice.

Personally I feel the World is full of decent people and it would be a much better place if everyone just accepted that no one person thinks the way everyone else does on every topic and most things you will differ on (in some way, not necessarily entirely), and that you should treat others as you would like to be treated yourself and try to be kind. If you can’t say something productive, new (to you) or it’s going to make someone kick off, then it’s better (mostly) to not respond.

My postings would be much more numerous if I simply responded immediately or responded to everything. Instead I accept the difference of opinion and or eye-roll silently and move on.

Also, it’s the Internet, you don’t know any of us, even the people in your life you are around all the time there will be things you don’t know. You can never really know everything about someone, even if you live with them your entire life, the brain is an individual’s own private domain.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by cheekyangus

Debating isn’t repeating the same thing for years on end with no taking on board of responses and hoping everyone else falls into line with a World view.

Yes, I get that, but the criticism is constantly about the clear conclusions I have reached based on what appears obvious to me. The only reason I keep repeating myself is because I keep getting responses (repeated responses) which appear to miss the point completely. None of the usual suspects are prepared even to consider that what I say might be true, but no-one, absolutely no-one has come up with a serious reason why that should not happen.

I acknowledge that my assessment of the future may not be 100% correct, obviously. I have pointed out before that I’m not Nostradamus! But surely nobody can disregard the growing acceptance of streaming at the expense of linear TV. I am just stating the obvious (ie that linear channels are losing advertising revenue and new originals to streamers, which will ultimately have consequences).

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, I get that, but the criticism is constantly about the clear conclusions I have reached based on what appears obvious to me. The only reason I keep repeating myself is because I keep getting responses (repeated responses) which appear to miss the point completely. None of the usual suspects are prepared even to consider that what I say might be true, but no-one, absolutely no-one has come up with a serious reason why that should not happen.

I acknowledge that my assessment of the future may not be 100% correct, obviously. I have pointed out before that I’m not Nostradamus! But surely nobody can disregard the growing acceptance of streaming at the expense of linear TV. I am just stating the obvious (ie that linear channels are losing advertising revenue and new originals to streamers, which will ultimately have consequences).

People just want to watch tv reliably. Streaming has so many things that can go wrong, which means no, or buffering tv. . Ok as an additional on demand content. Live terrestial tv and hard drive recordings are far more reliable. Can't see that changing in our lifetime's OB. I suspect we'll see people on Mars first, and they'll use hard drive recordings for tv entertainment and won't be relying on streaming dodgy interweb from mother Earth.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There's a reason for that. Those that agree with me are intimidated into silence due to the incessant trolling and baiting they have witnesed around these debates.

Utter nonsense. You of all people are just as incessant.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There's a reason for that. Those that agree with me are intimidated into silence due to the incessant trolling and baiting they have witnesed around these debates. I am happy to debate with anyone, but I'm done debating with trolls. I spend a lot less time coming to this forum for that reason.

I get that you believe that, it's just at odds with what I am seeing. No point in debating how you feel about the opinions of others though. Someone not agreeing with you doesn't really fit the definition of trolling. Maybe you just have a problem with dealing with the fact that not everyone will agree with your way of thinking.

Notvat all. There is no complication here.Your point is a pedantic one, because whether you view the features to be minor or major, the conclusion is the same. If the V6 gets withdrawn, some may leave Virgin it's true, but no other provider offers these TiCVo features. That was the point.

Again. you are ignoring the opinions of others and viewing your opinion as the only correct opinion. It isn't "correct", it's just an opinion and no more valid that what everyone else thinks about the value of specific features. So, as things stand, these customers will probably realise they can get "lowest common denominator" services elsewhere and will simply leave because Virgin no longer provides what they want.

You are somewhat correct about no other provider stepping forward to provide missing features. The barriers to entry in the content distribution market are massive. Normally, basic supply and demand would mean another provider would step in to supply a product with the features demanded by the consumers. In this instance, perhaps not.

The actual point though, which you have deliberately ignored, is that by starving the V6 of apps, Virgin has already forced users to go elsewhere for their streaming content. If Virgin goes on to remove the only features keeping these customers, they will leave. I get that you don't see this as important, I'm afraid others will.

You've completely missed the point. If the current offer is withdrawn, there is nowhere to go for a similar system.

Again you are pretty much repeating what you have already said so my reply to your previous point also applies here.

---------- Post added at 01:44 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------

Originally Posted by cheekyangus

Debating isn’t repeating the same thing for years on end with no taking on board of responses and hoping everyone else falls into line with a World view

I agree with everything you said in that post but this part especially. It does seem that, with Old Boy, it is "my way or the highway".

[RichardCoulter]

That's my attitude completely. If the unique V6 features are removed there is no point in me paying for TV via Virgin. I can get a bog standard TV service elsewhere for free (or even consider the free TV with broadband deal) and dip in and out of cheap Now TV deals or even largely give up TV and use other forms of entertainment.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

That's my attitude completely. If the unique V6 features are removed there is no point in me paying for TV via Virgin. I can get a bog standard TV service elsewhere for free (or even consider the free TV with broadband deal) and dip in and out of cheap Now TV deals or even largely give up TV and use other forms of entertainment.

This is what has already been seen with enforced conversions to TV360. There are customers who simply don't like it and have either persisted in getting their service converted back to V6 or have just given up and left.

My sister has the TV360, I've used it there quite a bit and really do not like it. Looking at the way they use it, it is more like how I use Roku than how I use the V6. If the V6 is withdrawn and I lose the V6 features, there will be no point in continuing to pay Virgin for TV services. I won't need to duplicate what I can already get with the Roku.

[vincerooney]

Originally Posted by epsilon

This is what has already been seen with enforced conversions to TV360. There are customers who simply don't like it and have either persisted in getting their service converted back to V6 or have just given up and left.

My sister has the TV360, I've used it there quite a bit and really do not like it. Looking at the way they use it, it is more like how I use Roku than how I use the V6. If the V6 is withdrawn and I lose the V6 features, there will be no point in continuing to pay Virgin for TV services. I won't need to duplicate what I can already get with the Roku.

if youve only used it at your sisters surely you'll admit you're not used to the software yet so can't make a judgment on it?

its absolutely fine and does exactly the same as the v6 in my eyes but this time its quicker and has more apps.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

Utter nonsense. You of all people are just as incessant.

You mean I take the trouble to respond again and again to people who seem to have taken from my posts things I was not even saying, or getting the wrong end of the stick? Guilty as charged.

I just have to add a link to support something I say and the usual suspects fall on me like a ton of bricks. This is not normal behaviour.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ----------

Originally Posted by epsilon

I get that you believe that, it's just at odds with what I am seeing. No point in debating how you feel about the opinions of others though. Someone not agreeing with you doesn't really fit the definition of trolling. Maybe you just have a problem with dealing with the fact that not everyone will agree with your way of thinking.

Oh, I get that people will have different views on this, and I completely accept that. But have you not seen previous posts in response to mine on this subject? The people who accuse me of being absolutely adamant that my 2035 ‘prediction’ is correct are just as adamant that their view that IPTV will not happen soon and conventional channels will not disappear is correct. My ‘prediction’ is not a guaranteed outcome, of course I know that - I am simply giving my view. I am happy to accept the views of others will differ from mine, but the attitude that what I am saying could never happen is a failure to accept that things can change.

Originally Posted by epsilon

Again. you are ignoring the opinions of others and viewing your opinion as the only correct opinion. It isn't "correct", it's just an opinion and no more valid that what everyone else thinks about the value of specific features. So, as things stand, these customers will probably realise they can get "lowest common denominator" services elsewhere and will simply leave because Virgin no longer provides what they want.

I am not ignoring the opinions of others, and I have been diligent in addressing their points of view in my responses.

What you are saying here about people who may leave Virgin if viewers only have a choice of the V6 in the future is correct. The point I’m making is simply that if Virgin so decide, there is nowhere else to go to keep those features that some are saying they can’t do without.

Originally Posted by epsilon

You are somewhat correct about no other provider stepping forward to provide missing features. The barriers to entry in the content distribution market are massive. Normally, basic supply and demand would mean another provider would step in to supply a product with the features demanded by the consumers. In this instance, perhaps not.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by epsilon

The actual point though, which you have deliberately ignored, is that by starving the V6 of apps, Virgin has already forced users to go elsewhere for their streaming content. If Virgin goes on to remove the only features keeping these customers, they will leave. I get that you don't see this as important, I'm afraid others will.

I agree with all that, except your last sentence. I simply said that the features the V6 has that the 360 has not are minor features. I get it that some people think they are important to them.

Originally Posted by epsilon

It does seem that, with Old Boy, it is "my way or the highway".

No, epsilon, I am just giving my point of view. Nothing anyone has said changes my basic presumption that the V6 will not be around for that much longer and that everything will be broadcast on demand or by live stream via IPTV by 2035 unless the government intervenes.

I could not fail to notice that some contributors vehemently disagree, and that’s fine. But if they misunderstand or misrepresent what I’ve said, I will respond.

I hope that clears things up.