Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

No they just hold the entire population hostage by the ability to stop routine daily life in its tracks on a whim

You do know that the Rafah crossing into Egypt is routinely closed for up to half of any given year, yes?

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Originally Posted by noel43

Isreal is not a country it is a state created after the second world war, with land taken of palestine.

Funny how the ‘river to the sea’ mob love international law right up to the point it becomes inconvenient.

Israel is a fully recognised member of the UN on precisely the same terms as the UK, France, Jordan, Egypt and whoever else. The distinction you’re attempting to draw here is meaningless.

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

Now Hezbollah’s walkie talkies are exploding.

Somehow the BBC’s Frank Gardner’s takeaway from this is that Israel has scored an own goal. Click below for what reads worryingly like 6 paragraphs of pure, anti-Israel copium:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyl...e9908c4b8#post

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

You do know that the Rafah crossing into Egypt is routinely closed for up to half of any given year, yes?

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------



Funny how the ‘river to the sea’ mob love international law right up to the point it becomes inconvenient.

Israel is a fully recognised member of the UN on precisely the same terms as the UK, France, Jordan, Egypt and whoever else. The distinction you’re attempting to draw here is meaningless.

Not saying it isn't, just a lot of people call it a country when it isn,t In your opinion.

Originally Posted by noel43

Not saying it isn't, just a lot of people call it a country when it isn,t In your opinion.

By any common understanding of the word ‘country’, Israel is a country. Perhaps you could explain why you think it isn’t?

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

By any common understanding of the word ‘country’, Israel is a country. Perhaps you could explain why you think it isn’t?

Because it is a created plot of land created by rthe UN.

Originally Posted by noel43

Because it is a created plot of land created by rthe UN.

Again … a meaningless distinction with no basis in law. And not something that would prevent anyone from referring to Israel as a ‘country’ in common speech. So apart from having no legal meaning, and no relevance to commonly understood English words, you’re doing ok.

Your problem, of course, is that you’re trapped in a mindset that seeks to delegitimise Israel’s existence. As we all know, ‘from the river to the sea’ isn’t a cuddly slogan, it is the desperate cry of those who wish to see the un-creation of that ‘plot of land’ as you quaintly put it.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

You do know that the Rafah crossing into Egypt is routinely closed for up to half of any given year, yes?

And airspace ? And waters ? And northern borders ?

You know fine well Israel has and maintains a strangle hold on Gaza

We should just put both sides in the Australian outback let them batter each other with sticks and the winner takes all

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by noel43

Isreal is not a country it is a state created after the second world war, with land taken of palestine.

Here is a list of countries, many formed after WW2, are you saying they’re not legitimate?

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

Again … a meaningless distinction with no basis in law. And not something that would prevent anyone from referring to Israel as a ‘country’ in common speech. So apart from having no legal meaning, and no relevance to commonly understood English words, you’re doing ok.

Your problem, of course, is that you’re trapped in a mindset that seeks to delegitimise Israel’s existence. As we all know, ‘from the river to the sea’ isn’t a cuddly slogan, it is the desperate cry of those who wish to see the un-creation of that ‘plot of land’ as you quaintly put it.

No. I believe in facts, as opposed to what I am told. Never said Israel should not exist, Just said they should not be occupying Gaza thirty years after it invaded

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Originally Posted by Pierre

Here is a list of countries, many formed after WW2, are you saying they’re not legitimate?

What countries

Originally Posted by noel43

No. I believe in facts, as opposed to what I am told. Never said Israel should not exist, Just said they should not be occupying Gaza thirty years after it invaded

You say you don’t believe Israel shouldn't exist, yet you freely parrot the talking points of those that do believe exactly that. You sound very much to me like someone who just believes what you’ve been told.

Further example … Israel was not created out of land that was ‘taken off Palestine’ which did not exist at the point Israel was created in 1948. So again, maybe check where you’re getting details from that you think are facts. Because they aren’t.

Mandate Palestine was a British-controlled territory carved out of part of the Ottoman Empire. Prior to that the land was administered within the Ottoman empire as several separate provinces. What you think of as Palestine had never been an independent country and prior to the mid-20th century its inhabitants considered themselves ethnically Arab. The proposal in 1948 would have created ‘Palestinian’ as a national identity in the same way the end of Mandate Mesopotamia in 1931 created ‘Iraqi’.

In the event, it was the actions of Jews prior to 1948 and actions of Israel since 1948, against the ethnic Arab inhabitants of that land, that have done as much as anything else to create a unifying sense of Palestinian identity.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

You say you don’t believe Israel shouldn't exist, yet you freely parrot the talking points of those that do believe exactly that. You sound very much to me like someone who just believes what you’ve been told.

Further example … Israel was not created out of land that was ‘taken off Palestine’ which did not exist at the point Israel was created in 1948. So again, maybe check where you’re getting details from that you think are facts. Because they aren’t.

Mandate Palestine was a British-controlled territory carved out of part of the Ottoman Empire. Prior to that the land was administered within the Ottoman empire as several separate provinces. What you think of as Palestine had never been an independent country and prior to the mid-20th century its inhabitants considered themselves ethnically Arab. The proposal in 1948 would have created ‘Palestinian’ as a national identity in the same way the end of Mandate Mesopotamia in 1931 created ‘Iraqi’.

In the event, it was the actions of Jews prior to 1948 and actions of Israel since 1948, against the ethnic Arab inhabitants of that land, that have done as much as anything else to create a unifying sense of Palestinian identity.

My original argument was Israel is not a country but a state, I admit I made a mistake of land being taken of Palestine. I knew it was a british controlled territory and they was a mandate for a free state of Israel.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Somehow the BBC’s Frank Gardner’s takeaway from this is that Israel has scored an own goal. Click below for what reads worryingly like 6 paragraphs of pure, anti-Israel copium:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyl...e9908c4b8#post

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, where does Israel's Dahiya Doctrine ever get them, the first intifada was stone throwers and riots, the 2nd was suicide bombers, where will all this lead, not to peace, not to a solution

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And airspace ? And waters ? And northern borders ?

You know fine well Israel has and maintains a strangle hold on Gaza

And gets Egypt to play ball their end

Originally Posted by Pierre

Here is a list of countries, many formed after WW2, are you saying they’re not legitimate?

Great list, thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by noel43

My original argument was Israel is not a country but a state, I admit I made a mistake of land being taken of Palestine. I knew it was a british controlled territory and they was a mandate for a free state of Israel.

And, to reiterate, the statement ‘Israel is not a country but a state’ is meaningless, with no value outside of the fevered wishful thinking of those who seek to delegitimise it.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

And, to reiterate, the statement ‘Israel is not a country but a state’ is meaningless, with no value outside of the fevered wishful thinking of those who seek to delegitimise it.

does no delegitimise. It is just stating a fact.

Originally Posted by noel43

does no delegitimise. It is just stating a fact.

It isn’t even a fact. As an attempt to draw a distinction, it’s nonsense.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by noel43

What countries

Sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_of_formation

Shows all countries, many, many formed after WW2, with changes in territories, and forms of government.

The formation of Israel does not make it illegitimate.