Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

Originally Posted by Pierre

Up to 5000 pagers I heard this morning, that’s a lot of terrorists!

They have managed to hit Hezbollah members in all areas of the organisation - administrative as well as fighters. Nobody was safe from this. Apart from the very real physical injuries, the psychological blow will be enormous.

It appears that the pagers were manufactured in Hungary under licence from a Taiwanese company. The brand owner in Taiwan claims to know nothing about it, which seems entirely plausible. The question is whether Mossad was running the entire production line in Budapest. I can’t imagine how they managed to booby trap so many of the devices, and ensure they only went into what was presumably a bulk purchase order, if they didn’t have pretty much unfettered access to the factory.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why would there be “military” buildings in a refugee camp.

As I said, I’m just hopeful non of the innocent civilians that were holding the hostages against their will in their non-military buildings for eight months were injured.

Israeli govt is now a terrorist organisation

[1701-e]

Originally Posted by Chris

They have managed to hit Hezbollah members in all areas of the organisation - administrative as well as fighters. Nobody was safe from this. Apart from the very real physical injuries, the psychological blow will be enormous..

killing a ten year old girl wearing a pager is not warfare.... It's murder.

We are going to be descending into all out war..I'm hoping that the British government are going to keep a very,very big distance from either side.
Mind there will be several other countries who will no doubt stir the pot for all their worth if they think they will gain influence.

Originally Posted by 1701-e

killing a ten year old girl wearing a pager is not warfare.... It's murder.

Targeting a child certainly would be unlawful, by the ‘laws’ of war, such as they are. Targeting a member of an armed Iranian proxy militia, and killing a child in the effort, would probably not be. Like it or not, this is the world we live in and those are the complex web of international treaties that attempt to keep a lid on the worst expressions of human nature.

That’s not to minimise the tragedy or glorify the violence at all. But any attempt to understand what’s happening, and even to campaign for change, requires us to recognise the context in which it happens. Shouting ‘murder’ may feel morally satisfying but it won’t persuade any of the people who did this, or enabled it.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Maggy

We are going to be descending into all out war..I'm hoping that the British government are going to keep a very,very big distance from either side.
Mind there will be several other countries who will no doubt stir the pot for all their worth if they think they will gain influence.

Not likely, listening to that war criminal Blair to much.

---------- Post added at 11:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

A man who takes up arms in order to randomly kill, rape and take hostages is a terrorist. If Hamas was the recognised army of a recognised country, then the these men might, at best, be considered war criminals. But it isn’t. And they’re not.

The language of “militant” and “fighter” represents years of well-meant attempts to be even handed and neutral in reporting on Palestine-Israel but here and now it’s plain equivocation. These men sit in precisely the same category as the Al-Qaeda terrorists who hijacked planes on 9/11 and used them to murder 1,000s of people in New York and Washington.

Israeli has been killing innocent people in Gaza for years, as long as America backs then they will continue to do so.

Originally Posted by noel43

Israeli has been killing innocent people in Gaza for years, as long as America backs then they will continue to do so.

Hamas has been killing innocent people in Israel for years. As long as Iran backs them they will continue to do so.



What’s your point, caller?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Hamas has been killing innocent people in Israel for years. As long as Iran backs them they will continue to do so.



What’s your point, caller?

I think the point is there’s no outrage at hundreds/thousands of innocent people being injured. When Israel do it its justifiable collateral damage in the war against their enemy. When Hamas do it they’re evil terrorists

The pager explosions show a brutal disregard for the safety of non combatants

Appears there’s been more explosions as well

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Chris

Hamas has been killing innocent people in Israel for years. As long as Iran backs them they will continue to do so.



What’s your point, caller?

When you occupy a .country illegaly for thirty years, what you expect them to do.

Notwithstanding the ICJ’s legal opinion, Isreal does not occupy Gaza. It forcibly evicted the last Israeli settlers there in 2005. Even the ICJ admits its definition of ‘occupation’ hangs on the fact that Israel ‘could’ exercise control over the territory if it wished, not that it actually does so.

Regardless of the above, you can play chicken and egg with this all the way back to 1947 and even earlier. Arguments built on arbitrary dates (1967 being a popular one) are inherently bad faith.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Notwithstanding the ICJ’s legal opinion, Isreal does not occupy Gaza. It forcibly evicted the last Israeli settlers there in 2005. Even the ICJ admits its definition of ‘occupation’ hangs on the fact that Israel ‘could’ exercise control over the territory if it wished, not that it actually does so.

Regardless of the above, you can play chicken and egg with this all the way back to 1947 and even earlier. Arguments built on arbitrary dates (1967 being a popular one) are inherently bad faith.

No they just hold the entire population hostage by the ability to stop routine daily life in its tracks on a whim

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The pager explosions show a brutal disregard for the safety of non combatants

Everyone that had one of those pagers was either a member of or worked for a terrorist organization ( don’t know why a child would have one)

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

Originally Posted by noel43

When you occupy a .country illegaly for thirty years, what you expect them to do.

What country did they occupy?

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Everyone that had one of those pagers was either a member of or worked for a terrorist organization ( don’t know why a child would have one)

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------



What country did they occupy?

Ok occupied the gaza strip for thirty years and allowed israeli citizens to build villages. This is under is illegal under international law. As log ad the us backs them this will continue to continue.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by noel43

Ok occupied the gaza strip for thirty years and allowed israeli citizens to build villages. This is under is illegal under international law. As log ad the us backs them this will continue to continue.

It will continue as long as Hamas exist, it will end when Palestinians and neighboring Islamic nations accept Israel’s right to exist.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It will continue as long as Hamas exist, it will end when Palestinians and neighboring Islamic nations accept Israel’s right to exist.

Isreal is not a country it is a state created after the second world war, with land taken of palestine.