The gender ideology thread

Originally Posted by Hugh

I thought 18 was the minimum age in the U.K. for Gender reassignment surgery?

Yeah, only the chemical sterilisation occurs prior to them turning 18, though that in itself causes serious physical changes by preventing puberty occurring. plastic surgery follows when they’ve reached the age of adult consent - though how much genuine choice a young adult has after their body is rendered child-like thanks to un-evidenced use of puberty-blocking drugs is debatable.

I think the important thing here is that we stop using euphemisms. So-called ‘Gender affirming care’ is, to me, dangerously close to child abuse of mentally fragile young people and ‘gender reassignment surgery’ in fact reassigns nothing. It is plastic surgery which only compounds a profound error of clinical care.

A woman is an adult human female. A man is an adult human male. Sex is immutable. Our health services would do better to focus on helping young people to be resilient in the face of biological reality rather than medicalising the highly contentious pseudoscience known as ‘queer theory’.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

I believe one of the medical scandals of our time, when the history of this time is written, will turn out to be the way we allowed clinicians to sterilise and perform plastic surgery on physically healthy children when what they actually needed was appropriate mental health care.

I couldn’t agree more. How organisations like Stonewall have come to infiltrate various facets of public life, policing language, presenting falsehoods as facts will absolutely be another one.

Originally Posted by Chris

Yeah, only the chemical sterilisation occurs prior to them turning 18, though that in itself causes serious physical changes by preventing puberty occurring. plastic surgery follows when they’ve reached the age of adult consent - though how much genuine choice a young adult has after their body is rendered child-like thanks to un-evidenced use of puberty-blocking drugs is debatable.

I think the important thing here is that we stop using euphemisms. So-called ‘Gender affirming care’ is, to me, dangerously close to child abuse of mentally fragile young people and ‘gender reassignment surgery’ in fact reassigns nothing. It is plastic surgery which only compounds a profound error of clinical care.

A woman is an adult human female. A man is an adult human male. Sex is immutable. Our health services would do better to focus on helping young people to be resilient in the face of biological reality rather than medicalising the highly contentious pseudoscience known as ‘queer theory’.

I agree with a number of your points, but you did say

the way we allowed clinicians to sterilise and perform plastic surgery on physically healthy children

I too, have concerns around children who believe they have gender dysmorphia being prescribed drugs, but I also believe it’s important to base arguments/positions on fact-based positions (as far as possible, due to a paucity of research in this subject), rather than on things that haven’t happened (in the U.K.).

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I thought 18 was the minimum age in the U.K. for Gender reassignment surgery?

A bit pointless giving over 18’s puberty blockers.

Contrary to some literature, they are not “reversible” and do not just pause development.

So although “surgery” may not have occurred, the damage is already done.

Originally Posted by Hugh

I agree with a number of your points, but you did say



I too, have concerns around children who believe they have gender dysmorphia being prescribed drugs, but I also believe it’s important to base arguments/positions on fact-based positions (as far as possible, due to a paucity of research in this subject), rather than on things that haven’t happened (in the U.K.).

Granted, plastic surgery on minors for gender ‘treatment’ doesn’t happen in the UK, however there are, for example, hundreds of documented cases of double mastectomy amongst girls aged between 12 and 17 in the USA. It is a fact-based position, though one I could have made more clearly. It is important that we don’t artificially restrict ourselves to considering only the UK because the cultural and academic forces at play here do not respect borders. Advocates and critics are heard across the Atlantic and relevant medical studies draw on cases from across Europe and the world.

[RichardCoulter]

Puberty blockers seem to be a good way to give them time to decide what gender they identify as, without doing anything too major that they may regret. All that would happen would be that they go through puberty later.

...unless they cause permanent damage, I really don't know.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Puberty blockers seem to be a good way to give them time to decide what gender they identify as, without doing anything too major that they may regret. All that would happen would be that they go through puberty later.

...unless they cause permanent damage, I really don't know.

Well this suggests that might not be entirely true, or a good strategy.

Originally Posted by Pierre

A bit pointless giving over 18’s puberty blockers.

Contrary to some literature, they are not “reversible” and do not just pause development.

So although “surgery” may not have occurred, the damage is already done.

That said, we dont know the source of that statement, and if its actually true.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Puberty blockers seem to be a good way to give them time to decide what gender they identify as, without doing anything too major that they may regret. All that would happen would be that they go through puberty later.

...unless they cause permanent damage, I really don't know.

They cause permanent damage.

You really, really need to read up on this Richard. They are exceptionally powerful drugs that were designed to treat prodigious puberty in young children. When used as intended, they delay puberty in children who have begun to develop too early. The drugs are withdrawn at an age when puberty is meant to start and is then allowed to progress normally.

Their use in older, often mentally vulnerable children, stopping puberty from occurring during the years it is supposed to be happening, has not been adequately tested, has potentially very serious long term side effects including sterilisation and osteoporosis. These concerns are at the heart of the review of evidence and practice in NHS England conducted earlier this year by Dr Hilary Cass and which have already resulted in several significant changes in the NHS throughout the UK, including a permanent ban on the use of puberty blockers on young people confused about their gender- a confusion the entire trans rights movement is designed to promote.

I should also add that the whole concept of children needing time to ‘decide’ what gender they are is a highly contested element of a social science - many would say pseudo-science - called queer theory, and draws on metaphysical speculation about the existence of a so-called ‘gendered soul’ which may or may not align with one’s biological sex. There has been a concerted campaign over many years to get these ideas embedded in public consciousness without any discussion or criticism, but it really cannot go unchallenged.

[Pierre]

That said, we dont know the source of that statement, and if its actually true.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-medicine.html

I don’t think there’s a link to the report cited, but shouldn’t be hard to find. The problem is there hasn’t been a massive amount of research done ( which is worrying in itself if you’re willing to prescribe them)

Dr Cass also found in her report that there is very little follow up study’s done.

Most positive takes on Blockers come unsurprisingly from Pro-Trans sources of from American clinics and pharma…….because they are trying to sell you a product

[jfman]

I think one of the most tragic things is those born with physical conditions that could be supported by undergoing the treatments that have been pioneered in the field will probably find it more challenging to get help because of the plethora of organisations selling them as lifestyle choices to the mentally ill.

Originally Posted by Pierre

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-medicine.html

I don’t think there’s a link to the report cited, but shouldn’t be hard to find. The problem is there hasn’t been a massive amount of research done ( which is worrying in itself if you’re willing to prescribe them)

Dr Cass also found in her report that there is very little follow up study’s done.

Most positive takes on Blockers come unsurprisingly from Pro-Trans sources of from American clinics and pharma…….because they are trying to sell you a product

Here’s the research paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_and_Function

Paralympics allow an Italian man to run in 200m women’s race.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cpvymmpyjeko

Plenty of good detail in that article that demonstrates how male physical advantage persists even if you follow up your belief that you’re a woman by taking female hormones. If Valentina Petrillo wants to race at the Paralympics then he should be racing against men, which of course he did for most of his life.

[Hom3r]

I talk to my 23 year old niece who is gay, about the modern gender Identity.

To her gender neutral toilets are the norm.

I do have one issue, I feel that you should use the toilets based on your birth biology. (yes there are those born with both, but they IIRC generally choose one).

Once you have finished the relevant surgery you can use the new gender.

Wasn't there a rapist who said he identified as a woman and was put in a women's prison and he committed a crime in there.

Gender-neutral toilets have been around for a long time purely out of convenience/space anyway. Some places only have one or two toilets so make it accessible to all. I know the National Theatre bar is unisex. A bar near me also has it.

These never have urinals though which is the only point of contention. Otherwise, it's a set of private - unisex - cubicles and then a shared area for washing hands.

Originally Posted by Hom3r

I talk to my 23 year old niece who is gay, about the modern gender Identity.

To her gender neutral toilets are the norm.

I do have one issue, I feel that you should use the toilets based on your birth biology. (yes there are those born with both, but they IIRC generally choose one).

Once you have finished the relevant surgery you can use the new gender.

Wasn't there a rapist who said he identified as a woman and was put in a women's prison and he committed a crime in there.

Adam Bryson from Clydebank. Accused of two rapes. Appeared in court initially under his wife’s surname (Adam Graham), legally changed his name to Isla Bryson a year later, but was still legally recognised as a man, owing to the fact that he is one and had not applied to have his birth certificate altered.

Ended up convicted and in a women’s prison, right at the same time Nicola Sturgeon was doing the Press rounds insisting that the SNP’s ludicrous gender self-ID bill would not further enable the very thing that was happening right under her nose. Unclear from the reading I’ve quickly done here whether his birth certificate now contains the legal fiction that he is ‘female’. However here’s a photo taken outside court.



---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Gender-neutral toilets have been around for a long time purely out of convenience/space anyway. Some places only have one or two toilets so make it accessible to all. I know the National Theatre bar is unisex. A bar near me also has it.

These never have urinals though which is the only point of contention. Otherwise, it's a set of private - unisex - cubicles and then a shared area for washing hands.

Gender neutral toilets aren’t an issue as long as they don’t contain a closed-off space where men and women mix out of public view. A door straight off a corridor marked unisex is fine (you often find these in small independent coffee shops). A men’s toilet converted to unisex by removing the urinals and adding a counter top containing free period products, as happened at my local university, is absolutely not ok. The enclosed space bakes in one of the real and present dangers posed by trans ideology, which is the erosion of safe female spaces.

At the time of the conversion, everyone I knew, and overheard, continued to talk about that room as the ‘men’s toilet’. There was a women’s one nearby, although not right next door. More recently however I have gone in there and had to exchange a very awkward smile with a lone woman standing at the mirror. *I* feel awkward because I know that a young woman alone in a secluded space with an unknown man is vulnerable. I am sure she feels worse. This is the sort of thing that this corrosive ideology has enabled by taking the (reasonable, democratic) idea that you can dress, and perceive, yourself however you want, to the (dangerous) idea that everyone else has to make way for you at the expense of their own comfort, safety and right to think and speak freely.