General : Virgin TV (2024)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

“Life in the future will be sub-optimal, so we should make everything worse from this point just to acclimatise” is a hot take.

There’s no reason for Virgin to sabotage their products to below subscriber expectations to suit your agenda, OB. By your own flawed rationale Sky and Virgin should simply disable hard drive recording altogether, people should burn their old DVD recorders and VCRs in a bonfire of old technology.

It’s not flawed just because you can’t get your head around it, jfman.

Neither Virgin Stream nor Sky Stream have hard drives, and once we go IPTV only, as we will, that technology will no longer be in play. Do keep up.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Originally Posted by epsilon

Apparently not, with many countries making recording easier with recordings in the cloud. In Germany, you can even subscribe to services such as YouTV which will record programmes in the cloud for you. It's only your dystopian dream of 2030 that completely eliminates linear TV and recording.

Recording in the cloud is simply bookmarking, which is different from recording as we do now. It’s basically highlighting programmes you want to see from an ‘on demand’ library.

For most people, there’s not much perceptible difference, but it is different in that those programmes you’ve bookmarked could be pulled at any time.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Recording in the cloud is simply bookmarking, which is different from recording as we do now. It’s basically highlighting programmes you want to see from an ‘on demand’ library.

For most people, there’s not much perceptible difference, but it is different in that those programmes you’ve bookmarked could be pulled at any time.

No, it is actually recording to "the cloud", or a remote hard-drive. The recordings are as aired, complete with adverts. They may or may not be skippable, depending on the provider. They can't generally be pulled "at any time" but often have expiry dates. The expiry date is similar to bookmarks but programmes which aren't made available on demand can be recorded in the cloud.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s not flawed just because you can’t get your head around it, jfman.

Neither Virgin Stream nor Sky Stream have hard drives, and once we go IPTV only, as we will, that technology will no longer be in play. Do keep up.

And millions of people, worth billions in revenue, pay for something else. I know financial viability and consumer demand are alien concepts in your 2035 wet dreams.

Recording in the cloud is simply bookmarking, which is different from recording as we do now. It’s basically highlighting programmes you want to see from an ‘on demand’ library.

For most people, there’s not much perceptible difference, but it is different in that those programmes you’ve bookmarked could be pulled at any time.

There’s a very perceptible difference when your internet goes down

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s a very perceptible difference when your internet goes down

After 2030 the internet will be delivered by magic unicorns and will never go down again, hadn't you heard?

[OLD BOY]

Sorry to hear some of you are having such trouble with your internet. Mine hasn’t gone down in a very long time. Nor have I experienced any power cuts for years.

Some of you seem to be of the view that the consumer actually has a choice in the matter when it is quite obvious that broadcasters are doing their best to encourage people in that direction. The BBC, ITV and Sky are all at it, as is Virgin Media.

Yes, jfman, it is all down to the money to be made, and while the TV channels are still able to make money now, there will come a point before long where most of those still choosing to watch scheduled TV rather than on demand will be viewers in the lower income bracket, who are of less interest to the advertisers.

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------

Originally Posted by epsilon

No, it is actually recording to "the cloud", or a remote hard-drive. The recordings are as aired, complete with adverts. They may or may not be skippable, depending on the provider. They can't generally be pulled "at any time" but often have expiry dates. The expiry date is similar to bookmarks but programmes which aren't made available on demand can be recorded in the cloud.

Yes, I get that, but my point was that the consumer will no longer have a hard drive on which to make their recordings.

I accept the technical difference you have explained in terms of how ‘recording to the cloud’ works, but consumers will not distinguish between that and bookmarking.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry to hear some of you are having such trouble with your internet. Mine hasn’t gone down in a very long time. Nor have I experienced any power cuts for years.

As ever, OB you are viewing things through the prism of your own experience and not the market as a whole. The vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, have no issues. It doesn’t mean they’d choose to have a hard drive recorder that doesn’t work during outages.

Some of you seem to be of the view that the consumer actually has a choice in the matter when it is quite obvious that broadcasters are doing their best to encourage people in that direction. The BBC, ITV and Sky are all at it, as is Virgin Media.

Yet none of these service providers have any concrete plans to do as you suggest.

Yes, jfman, it is all down to the money to be made, and while the TV channels are still able to make money now, there will come a point before long where most of those still choosing to watch scheduled TV rather than on demand will be viewers in the lower income bracket, who are of less interest to the advertisers.

Ah the “there will come a point” old chestnut. Where? When?

Yes, I get that, but my point was that the consumer will no longer have a hard drive on which to make their recordings.

I accept the technical difference you have explained in terms of how ‘recording to the cloud’ works, but consumers will not distinguish between that and bookmarking.

You absolutely don’t get it, nor have any interest in “getting it”. Your very interest in this thread is merely to sidetrack it rather than discuss the substantive issue at hand - Virgin TV services in 2024. Not 2044.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

As ever, OB you are viewing things through the prism of your own experience and not the market as a whole. The vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, have no issues. It doesn’t mean they’d choose to have a hard drive recorder that doesn’t work during outages.

No, you are twisting things again. Please read my posts more carefully before you reply. I never said anyone has a problem with their hard drive. Where did you get that from? We are not talking about what people want. We are talking about what will be available to them in the future.

Originally Posted by jfman

Yet none of these service providers have any concrete plans to do as you suggest.

All of them have these plans. Take your head out of the sand.

Originally Posted by jfman

Ah the “there will come a point” old chestnut. Where? When?

That will be a time of their choosing.

Originally Posted by jfman

You absolutely don’t get it, nor have any interest in “getting it”. Your very interest in this thread is merely to sidetrack it rather than discuss the substantive issue at hand - Virgin TV services in 2024. Not 2044.

Getting what? I understand completely. You are the one with a problem here, and by the way, my comment was entirely relevant to epsilon’s post. You are the one taking us on this endless picky cycle of yours.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No, you are twisting things again. Please read my posts more carefully before you reply. I never said anyone has a problem with their hard drive. Where did you get that from? We are not talking about what people want. We are talking about what will be available to them in the future.

I fail to see the value in a discussion that completely ignores both what consumers want and more importantly pay for in handsome numbers at present.

All of them have these plans. Take your head out of the sand.

Source? By source I mean a substantive piece that has clear stated dates by employees of, or officers of, a company making clear strategic decisions around the distribution of their content longer term. Not a speculative blog.

That will be a time of their choosing.

Rubbish. If it was so straightforward why not tomorrow? Because the marketplace would penalise such a narrow distribution of content.

Getting what? I understand completely. You are the one with a problem here, and by the way, my comment was entirely relevant to epsilon’s post. You are the one taking us on this endless picky cycle of yours.

I’ll invite epsilon to be the judge.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’ll invite epsilon to be the judge.

He missed the point completely. Consumer recording isn't being stopped as such, other countries get cloud recording as an option.

The UK puts copyright owners rights ahead of consumer rights and providers haven't been able to reach an agreement for cloud recording. It's exactly the same as TuneIn etc being prevented from carrying private or overseas radio/audio services on their UK services.

Other countries tend to give more weight to consumer rights and still allow access to overseas stations.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by epsilon

He missed the point completely. Consumer recording isn't being stopped as such, other countries get cloud recording as an option.

The UK puts copyright owners rights ahead of consumer rights and providers haven't been able to reach an agreement for cloud recording. It's exactly the same as TuneIn etc being prevented from carrying private or overseas radio/audio services on their UK services.

Other countries tend to give more weight to consumer rights and still allow access to overseas stations.

Actually, I did address your point. Mine was that the hard drive will not be on the equipment of the consumer. So their experience of ‘recording to the cloud’ will not be much different from bookmarking when all is said and done.

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Actually, I did address your point. Mine was that the hard drive will not be on the equipment of the consumer. So their experience of ‘recording to the cloud’ will not be much different from bookmarking when all is said and done.

Except that bookmarks don't exist for quite a few programmes and "on demand" can be limited to, say, 30 days. Cloud recordings could be used to record anything and to keep recordings for more than 30 days. But, until the UK allows cloud recording, any differences and similarities to bookmarks are irrelevant. I expect we will continue to see hard drives provided in the absence of cloud recording, even if Virgin etc can't be bothered to change the firmware to allow their boxes to store the list of recordings on the actual device.

Originally Posted by jfman

Yet none of these service providers have any concrete plans to do as you suggest.

Small point here, but you cannot possibly know what future plans they have.

Its clear Sky are looking at moving to streaming.
All their new products are streaming based, and have no HDs.

They no longer promote Sky Q, the last product to use a Dish and HD.
The new football delivery system is largely stream based, even on Q boxes.

By 2028, they will have to decide what to do about all their satellite products.
Their contract to use current Astra's expires, and the satellites themselves reach projected EOL in 2029.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Small point here, but you cannot possibly know what future plans they have.

Its clear Sky are looking at moving to streaming.
All their new products are streaming based, and have no HDs.

They no longer promote Sky Q, the last product to use a Dish and HD.
The new football delivery system is largely stream based, even on Q boxes.

By 2028, they will have to decide what to do about all their satellite products.
Their contract to use current Astra's expires, and the satellites themselves reach projected EOL in 2029.

I appreciate that things can, and do, change. However OB consistently presents this in absolute terms, for all broadcasters and across all platforms against his own preferred timeline of 2035.

The future of satellite broadcasting is uncertain in the long term but at the same time SES are starting to renew their fleet at 19.2E. Sky’s next steps will largely be guided by how many customers wouldn’t have the option to migrate to equivalent services over broadband, and the availability of satellite capacity - whether SES can squeeze more life out of those in place or whether they have alternate capacity that could be made available.

Satellite operators are continuing to invest in launches - although I appreciate that doesn’t necessarily mean they will for the UK.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I appreciate that things can, and do, change. However OB consistently presents this in absolute terms, for all broadcasters and across all platforms against his own preferred timeline of 2035.

The future of satellite broadcasting is uncertain in the long term but at the same time SES are starting to renew their fleet at 19.2E. Sky’s next steps will largely be guided by how many customers wouldn’t have the option to migrate to equivalent services over broadband, and the availability of satellite capacity - whether SES can squeeze more life out of those in place or whether they have alternate capacity that could be made available.

Satellite operators are continuing to invest in launches - although I appreciate that doesn’t necessarily mean they will for the UK.

2035 comes out of what I said in 2015, which is what I believed would be different ‘in 20 years’ time’. You are the one twisting all this to make this ‘absolutist’. I really don’t care what happens, I’m just telling you what it looks like, but you are shutting your eyes to everything going on around you which doesn’t reflect your belief.

You do seem not to be capable of sensible debate and for that reason I’ll leave you to it for now. Just know that this is all playing out the way I thought it would. Only the exact end date for terrestrial and satellite broadcasting is not yet known.

[vincerooney]

The year is 2035 and the whole streaming argument stuff continues to dominate the coming to virgin media thread...