Smart Meters and Tariffs

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

In the case of leccy is 100% profit

The formula is public



I will try to find the gas formula.

I wonder if they pay a different wholesale cost for the SVR tariffs?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No idea but given that the sector should be in public ownership anyway, I don't really care. I think they (successfully) rely on most people being too scared/lazy/unaware to switch to the smart tariffs to make the point moot.

While they're not in public ownership you're rolling the dice just like everyone else who doesn't use a smart meter.

If everyone switched they'd make the prices reflect this to maintain or increase their current profit margins just like any other rational capitalists in an uncompetitive market.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

£4k in my case. Large house, with very large rooms, several out buildings. I run two 33KW boilers and 4 gas fires.

Leccy was free or almost free, at the weekend or negative (except 4-7pm)

I was paying 12.35 kWh all of Saturday with Octopus it has jumped a bit since then its now 18.87 kWh. They have just published tomorrow rate which is 18.01 kWh. Since i have moved on to the tracker i have saved a ton of money. If i was still on the variable rate i would be paying 29.57 kWh. I am considering moving to there agile tariff so i can charge my car in the small hours and take advantage of the really cheap or free rate .

[SnoopZ]

I've just finally managed to book an Octopus smart meter install for April 5th luckily when I'm off work as someone needs to be home the whole time.

I never wanted one but with all this Tracker and Agile tarrif talk I decided to give it ago and hope things don't go tits up.

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Only if you let them in...

Ya but the *******s could leave ya w/o power........ Thats not good either

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Dude111

Ya but the *******s could leave ya w/o power........ Thats not good either

If your bills are paid to date then they couldn't. This is Blighty not America. Only a safety issue or perceived safety issue could allow them to do so if your bills are paid to date.

[Dude111]

Well thats good to know!!!!!! (That they couldnt just cut power for refusing)

[Taf]

Next door had their smart meter swapped for another new one this morning. Still no communication possible.

[SnoopZ]

Originally Posted by Taf

Next door had their smart meter swapped for another new one this morning. Still no communication possible.

Do smart meters use a special network for communication?

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

Do smart meters use a special network for communication?

AFAIK the original ones used the 2G phone data and since that is being decommissioned some stop working. I think the later ones are 4G.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

AFAIK the original ones used the 2G phone data and since that is being decommissioned some stop working. I think the later ones are 4G.

Found this info, quite interesting:

Electricity & Gas SMETS2 Smart Meters

Existing SMETS1 meters are supplier specific and use GSM over existing 900MHz 3G mobile networks (SIM cards).

SMETS2 meters allow the consumer to change supplier and retain full smart meter functionality without needing a change of smart meter.

SMETS2 uses the DCC network, which is accessed via:

North of Lincoln: Arqiva FlexNet 412-424MHz LongRangeRadio WAN
Central & Southern: on cellular 900MHz O2 2G/3G GPRS and Telefonica 869MHz wireless mesh

SMETS 2 Meters

The Smart Metering Wide Area Network (SMWAN or WAN for short) is the name given to the communications network between the communications hub sitting on top of your electricity meter and the company responsible for collecting the data and passing it on to other businesses such as suppliers. This company will usually be the Data Communications Company (DCC) which the government has set up especially for the role of supporting SMETS 2 meters.

Depending on the Communications Service Provider (CSP), which varies by areas of the UK, the technology can change depending on what works best in a local area.

Scotland and the North of England

Long-Range Radio communications (LRR) is used by Arqiva Limited in Scotland and the North of England. The LRR system uses infrastructure and technology similar to that already used for other important national communications networks, such as those for emergency services and keeping lifeboat stations connected. Some 700 communication towers communicate directly with smart meter Communications Hubs in homes using the 400MHz band.

By 1st June 2020 Arqiva Limited had achieved their maximum contracted coverage of at least 99.5%, achieving 99.55%.

Rest of England and Wales

The 2G/3G cellular radio communications network is used by Telefónica (Virgin Media O2) in the rest of England and Wales, known as the Central & South regions. This system is commonly used by mobile phones. In a cellular system, geographical areas are divided into regular shaped "cells".

Additionally, Telefónica also use aerials and local mesh networks to improve coverage. A mesh uses other comms hubs in meters around you to reach a comms hub with a radio link to DCC. This form of communications looks like a mesh when you draw out the possible links between meters and is therefore known as a Mesh network.

So I guess if you have no O2 mobile signal, you might have a challenge?

[Taf]

The houses on our side of the road, and on several other locations around the country, were all built to the same design and with the same materials. Brick facing and clinker block interior walls, held together with steel ties. Several showed signs of the ties failing, and it was found that they were not of the specified steel required and were rusting to nothing.

So in the late 80s, the walls were removed, leaving the buildings as shells, with the first floor ceiling and roof held up by props. The walls were then replaced with hardened brick exteriors with lightweight insulation blocks inside. Because of the fragility of the insulation blocks, standard ties could not be used, so a stanless steel framework "caged-in" the blocks, and that cage was then tied to the exterior brickwork.

I suspect that this metal framework has effectively made them into Faraday cages. Radio reception in the houses is hopeless, except near to windows. The meter boxes are all sunk into the exterior walls, so are probably shielded against RF signals.

The techs, stood outside, can get good 2-way comms, but I've yet to see one of them try the transceiver inside the meter boxes.

I know a few of these houses that have interior water meters, so I wonder how they communicate to the repeaters out on the pavements.

[Taf]

An 87-year-old woman lived in an "icy cold" home all winter because she was so afraid of high bills caused by a suspected faulty smart meter.

Her supplier Octopus Energy said although her energy usage was in line with previous years, it had now replaced her old meter and cleared her remaining debt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckk77v4wvr0o

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Taf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckk77v4wvr0o

Sadly the obvious ultimate conclusion of “if we can only make people use energy when it suits big companies and not when they need it”.

[SnoopZ]

Originally Posted by Taf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckk77v4wvr0o

You're making me nervous, my install is tomorrow and my current bill for both Gas and Electricity is only £75 a month with me being £300 in credit.