Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Paul

Yes, because that was clearly deliberate policy.

Actually got any sensible answers ?

Sorry but it’s a perfectly sensible answer, you might not like it but it’s true. If they can’t take due care when clearly unarmed people have a raised white flag with Hebrew written on it then that’s don’t hold much hope for their decision making in less clear situations.

Could you perhaps demonstrate what steps the IDF have taken to minimise civilian casualties ?

I’d suggest that they’re being indiscriminate as a whole based on the % of casualties being women and children, unless of course you or anyone else thinks they’re all active members of Hamas

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Yes, because that was clearly deliberate policy.

Actually got any sensible answers ?

It doesn’t need to be a deliberate policy, being reckless, careless or just complete incompetence aren’t really acceptable qualities for a military force as it massacres civilians, and hostages, “by accident”.

Not bombing refugee camps, hospitals that don’t actually have tunnels under them, churches, mosques or other areas generally recognised as refuges for civilians.

Oh, and don’t bomb the areas you tell civilians to evacuate to for their own safety.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...d-dbfcc0bb0000

All perfectly sensible.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Sorry but it’s a perfectly sensible answer, you might not like it but it’s true. If they can’t take due care when clearly unarmed people have a raised white flag with Hebrew written on it then that’s don’t hold much hope for their decision making in less clear situations.

The actions of what were probably reservist soldiers is not representative of the whole IDF.

Could you perhaps demonstrate what steps the IDF have taken to minimise civilian casualties ?

That’s very easy and well documented

https://www.jns.org/how-the-idf-is-r...lties-in-gaza/

I’d suggest that they’re being indiscriminate as a whole based on the % of casualties being women and children, unless of course you or anyone else thinks they’re all active members of Hamas

Well you can suggest Al you like, but you’d be wrong.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The actions of what were probably reservist soldiers is not representative of the whole IDF.

Always an excuse

What's not been mentioned here yet is that one of the hostages survived the initial executions and was hiding in a building wounded, shouting in Hebrew that he was a hostage and was then killed nevertheless and it's so unrepresentative of the IDF as a whole it's leader felt compelled to tell his soldiers they are absolutely not permitted to shoot those surrendering

Well you can suggest Al you like, but you’d be wrong.

Suppose Joe Biden is wrong too when he said Israel is losing international support due to it's indiscriminate bombing of civilians

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The actions of what were probably reservist soldiers is not representative of the whole IDF.



That’s very easy and well documented

https://www.jns.org/how-the-idf-is-r...lties-in-gaza/



Well you can suggest Al you like, but you’d be wrong.

Perhaps they could add ‘using the right munitions’ for the required situation.

For all their military superiority, intelligence gathering services and overseas backing the IDF’s approach appears to be at best
lackadaisical

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Perhaps they could add ‘using the right munitions’ for the required situation.

For all their military superiority, intelligence gathering services and overseas backing the IDF’s approach appears to be at best
lackadaisical

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-779510

The Jerusalem Post has the answer… ethnic cleansing.

Um, what does that article have to do with "ethnic cleansing" ?

[jfman]

Forcibly moving Palestinians from Gaza to the Sinai would be ethnic cleansing.

The ongoing obliteration of Hamas, which terrorizes Palestinian Authority officials and many Gaza residents, may pave the way to the emergence of the proposed Sinai solution, if presented in a wise and discrete manner that conforms to the Middle East mentality.

Terrorising residents here is being sold as a positive.

[Pierre]

https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-dep...ah-tv-13041022

Mossad, no doubt.

I would think so.

[Pierre]

Amazing how this has fallen off the radar.

Anyway, this is just a reminder that the actions in Gaza is not a genocide.

And if you need to understand what a genocide is, let me help you educate yourself.

Listen to this. It’ll take up a lot your time. Listen in the car or when walking the dog.

If, at times, it doesn’t bring you almost to tears or make you feel physically sick in your stomach…..well it will.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000645418266

You’ll be a lot more informed and potentially smarter having listened to this……….your welcome.

[jfman]

I’m sure the 1.5 million refugees that Israel are threatening to push into Egypt will care for the distinction from Jewish historians as to why Palestinian suffering isn’t as meaningful as theirs.

It’s probably fell of the radar because even those who initially found Israel’s actions in some way defensible ceased to do so. Or others felt like it was going round in circles.

At least nobody is pretending Israel don’t target hospitals any more.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m sure the 1.5 million refugees that Israel are threatening to push into Egypt will care for the distinction from Jewish historians as to why Palestinian suffering isn’t as meaningful as theirs.

It’s probably fell of the radar because even those who initially found Israel’s actions in some way defensible ceased to do so. Or others felt like it was going round in circles.

At least nobody is pretending Israel don’t target hospitals any more.

You haven’t listened to it.

Dan Carlin is not a historian, let alone a Jewish one.

Listen to it then comment otherwise you’re just being a dick.

Listen to it, please. Listen to it then we discuss.

What’s happening in Gaza is terrible, and I’m not playing top trumps, but anyone that says what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, is not to be taken seriously.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-779510

The Jerusalem Post has the answer… ethnic cleansing.

I think that when they originally started this war after the Hamas attack, they did not have ethnic cleansing explicitly in mind but as they made progress into Gaza, then I am sure this came up as an option. The excessive destruction of the housing and infrastructure lends itself to achieving de facto ethnic cleaning together with the hostile attitude to the Gazan civilians - "animals" etc.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I think that when they originally started this war after the Hamas attack, they did not have ethnic cleansing explicitly in mind but as they made progress into Gaza, then I am sure this came up as an option. The excessive destruction of the housing and infrastructure lends itself to achieving de facto ethnic cleaning together with the hostile attitude to the Gazan civilians - "animals" etc.

John went to the extreme by calling relocation of Gazans to Sinai peninsular 'ethnic cleansing'.

Note that the JP article does not contain the word "animals". I don't know where that came from. But here is a quote from the JP article that sums it up reasonably well [my emboldenment of text].

In other words, the metropolis has to be fully evacuated, redesigned, monitored, and only then rebuilt to provide habitable and economic conducive conditions. Such an effort requires unique expertise and immense funding and will take considerable time that cannot be calculated. Therefore, the war is anticipated to end with a unique humanitarian challenge of how to construct a better future for the people of Gaza.

Since Israel’s unconditional turnover of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority in 2005, Gazans have completely failed to generate a productive Palestinian-administered entity, despite generous economic support, mainly from America, Europe, Qatar, and the UN. This may be associated with the coupled effect of an intrinsic hatred-focused, fanatic, anti-Israel Islamic culture, and links with Iran, along with limited geographical conditions, poor natural and human resources, and a high population density. This situation raises serious doubts that any type of future self-sustainable efforts will yield a stable and free socioeconomic culture and promising future in the Strip. A creative solution is needed ASAP.

For what my opinion and that of the JP is worth, there is not a kangaroo's fart of a chance that any of this will work. And it's not helped by the Israeli Ultras who. perversely, seem to favour ethnic cleansing judging by their actions in the West Bank.

This is not going to end well - except possibly for the eradication of the current Hamas set.