Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Don't be so condescending. This forum is not just for you and him.

"We can see it’s all horrible" Actually, in fact you are unable to. You sanction the loss of so much life in Gaza with no boundaries. Your insincere hand wringing fools no one. You have no compassion for those civilians in Gaza.

you have asked the question several times, it's been answered several times. I'm not doing any handwringing, you're doing just fine by yourself.

It's war, you want the war to stop?

Then instead of demanding Israel stop their actions, go out and march, demanding that Hamas unconditionally surrender. All Hamas soldiers & leaders and should come out, lay down their weapons, release the remaining hostages and give Israel all of their arsenal so it can be destroyed.

Then Israel would stop.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Wiping out Hamas is absolutely justifiable , wiping out Hamas at the cost of thousands of innocent lives being lost is not.

Also, the use of sexual violence including rape in the history of this conflict is not exclusively limited to Hamas.

No but the Israeli Government are doing a good job with their 45 minute video to select journalists to keep it alive in the news cycle.

A useful distraction from their own actions.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

you have asked the question several times, it's been answered several times. I'm not doing any handwringing, you're doing just fine by yourself.

It's war, you want the war to stop?

Then instead of demanding Israel stop their actions, go out and march, demanding that Hamas unconditionally surrender. All Hamas soldiers & leaders and should come out, lay down their weapons, release the remaining hostages and give Israel all of their arsenal so it can be destroyed.

Then Israel would stop.

To clarify, ‘Then Israel would stop’ does that encompass ALL actions ? Or just those directly in response to the events of October 7th ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Wiping out Hamas is absolutely justifiable , wiping out Hamas at the cost of thousands of innocent lives being lost is not.

Also, the use of sexual violence including rape in the history of this conflict is not exclusively limited to Hamas.

How would you suggest Israel should wipe out Hamas?

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

I have said before numerous times and I will say again. Hamas is a murderous death cult and needs to be be disenfranchised and replaced by a more centrist Palestinian authority. There are other ways to do this: ways more considered and precise. Killing thousands of children is not the only way.

Your comments on this question are disturbing: you reply with emotive phrases when asked a simple question.
<SNIP>

What other ways?

Your question is far from simple; its both abstract and rhetorical because it cannot be answered. Nor, of course, can my question but it makes the point.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

you have asked the question several times, it's been answered several times. I'm not doing any handwringing, you're doing just fine by yourself.

It's war, you want the war to stop?

Then instead of demanding Israel stop their actions, go out and march, demanding that Hamas unconditionally surrender. All Hamas soldiers & leaders and should come out, lay down their weapons, release the remaining hostages and give Israel all of their arsenal so it can be destroyed.

Then Israel would stop.

Why should the safety and security of two million people depend on the actions of 20,000 terrorists, rapists and (alleged) baby beheaders?

That’s 99 innocent civilians for every 1 terrorist. In what skewed world view is that even slightly proportionate.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Why should the safety and security of two million people depend on the actions of 20,000 terrorists, rapists and (alleged) baby beheaders?

That’s 99 innocent civilians for every 1 terrorist. In what skewed world view is that even slightly proportionate.

How should Israel have erased the 20,000 terrorists? A realistic answer please.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

How should Israel have erased the 20,000 terrorists? A realistic answer please.

In what was is it presently a realistic outcome? They’re probably bombing more prospective terrorists into existence than out of it.

By your logic, taken to extreme, they can ethnically cleanse the entire population of Gaza so long as one single Hamas militant remains.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

In what was is it presently a realistic outcome? They’re probably bombing more prospective terrorists into existence than out of it.

By your logic, taken to extreme, they can ethnically cleanse the entire population of Gaza so long as one single Hamas militant remains.

I'll ask my question again in case you try to give a proper answer:

How should Israel have erased the 20,000 terrorists?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'll ask my question again in case you try to give a proper answer:

How should Israel have erased the 20,000 terrorists?

Have they erased 20,000 terrorists? You are speaking in the past tense and Hamas are still there, and will still be there long afterwards.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

To clarify, ‘Then Israel would stop’ does that encompass ALL actions ? Or just those directly in response to the events of October 7th ?

What actions had they taken against Gaza since their withdrawal in 2005 that wasn't in retaliation to Hamas aggression?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Have they erased 20,000 terrorists? You are speaking in the past tense and Hamas are still there, and will still be there long afterwards.

Of course I'm speaking in the past tense, just like you.
But you're complaining about Israel's methods. I'm asking you as to what method Israel should be using to erase Hamas?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Why should the safety and security of two million people depend on the actions of 20,000 terrorists, rapists and (alleged) baby beheaders?

That’s 99 innocent civilians for every 1 terrorist. In what skewed world view is that even slightly proportionate.

There were 280 million civilians in German occupied Europe. German land forces, Wehrmacht & Waffen SS only numbered around 6 million.

That 44 innocent civilians put in harms way by the Allies for every 1 German soldier.

You're right, looking back we should have let Hitler keep what he had.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There were 280 million civilians in German occupied Europe. German land forces, Wehrmacht & Waffen SS only numbered around 6 million.

That 44 innocent civilians put in harms way by the Allies for every 1 German soldier.

You're right, looking back we should have let Hitler keep what he had.

Did we raze German occupied Europe to the ground? My World War 2 is a bit hazy. Being significantly larger space likely reduced the risk.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Did we raze German occupied Europe to the ground?.

Much of it, yes.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Much of it, yes.

Did we kill 1% of the civilian population in 60 days?