Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[jfman]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I think "evil" would be greatly impacted by motivation. Acts can be terrible but not evil.

What motivation can one have for restricting the supply of food and water to a million people you’ve displaced?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Technology has changed. People's access to a range of media that provides a more rounded view of events, and information more rapidly and graphically have changed. People's reaction to the Dresden bombings would likely have been different if they saw the results on their TV screens every morning.

And whilst the law always plays catch up to technology and social change, that has changed too, as Hugh has outlined.

---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------


It's not really a constructive way to engage with others by calling them whiners. You wouldn't call someone that in a debate down the pub so why do it online?

Stalemate on the Dresden type discussion.

But about the "whiners", apart from you having a sanctimonious moment, in the Brexit debate that was a last resort that Leavers had to use. And there is at least one member still in that mode!

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Nobody said it was “purely” an objective to kill civilians - merely that it was a specific and controllable outcome from their actions.

I know nobody said it. My point is if that was their objective, then I would call them evil, but it's not their objective. It is a very sad outcome from operations they would deem essential. but they are not doing it purely for that reason.

That's why I differentiate between Hamas - evil, IDF - not evil.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Nobody has suggested Israel “do nothing”.

Israel will always be waiting for the next attack regardless.

Really? If there are no clear separate targets, what do they do instead of attacking near other buildings? If the population of Gaza was so against the aims and ACTIONS of Hamas, why aren't they complaining about it?
The actions of Hamas have to have consequences, otherwise the actions will continue unabated and not criticised by many. How many of those clamouring for a ceasefire now, were clamouring for a ceasefire from Hamas before?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Really? If there are no clear separate targets, what do they do instead of attacking near other buildings? If the population of Gaza was so against the aims and ACTIONS of Hamas, why aren't they complaining about it?
The actions of Hamas have to have consequences, otherwise the actions will continue unabated and not criticised by many. How many of those clamouring for a ceasefire now, were clamouring for a ceasefire from Hamas before?

Brings me back to Dresden. Did the people there clamour for a ceasefire? Did they complain about their government inviting the destruction? The actions of the Nazis had to have consequences.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Really? If there are no clear separate targets, what do they do instead of attacking near other buildings? If the population of Gaza was so against the aims and ACTIONS of Hamas, why aren't they complaining about it?
The actions of Hamas have to have consequences, otherwise the actions will continue unabated and not criticised by many. How many of those clamouring for a ceasefire now, were clamouring for a ceasefire from Hamas before?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/pr...hts-defenders/

Hamas security forces’ violent crackdown against peaceful Palestinian protesters, activists, human rights workers – including an Amnesty International worker – and local journalists must be immediately halted and investigated, said Amnesty International.

Hundreds of protesters have been subjected to beatings, arbitrary arrest and detentions, and torture and other forms of ill-treatment since 14 March, when Palestinians took to the streets across the Gaza Strip to protest against the rising cost of living and deteriorating economic conditions under the Hamas de facto administration.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/protes...-they-persist/

Given the near-complete absence of free media in the Strip, it is difficult for outside analysts to gauge how many people participated in the latest round of protests. According to videos circulating on social media, numbers seemed to be significantly larger in the first demonstration than in the second, when Hamas’s security apparatus adopted preventive measures.

Protests were scheduled to take place once again throughout the strip on Monday. However, Hamas came prepared to thwart them.

“In all the locations where we announced that gatherings would take place, there was a heavy presence of civilian and military security, and police cars everywhere,” a source inside Gaza told The Times of Israel on Tuesday.

“Whenever two people were walking together, they were forbidden to stop on the street, after not even a minute [security forces] would go up to them and tell them ‘get out of here or we will take you with us,'” he said.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I know nobody said it. My point is if that was their objective, then I would call them evil, but it's not their objective. It is a very sad outcome from operations they would deem essential. but they are not doing it purely for that reason.

That's why I differentiate between Hamas - evil, IDF - not evil.

Do you think, considering it’d be a gross violation of international law, any nation state would admit to those motives? Or do you think they’d disguise it under the cover or some other motive?

Hypothetically.

[Pierre]

An excellent speech from Netanyahu this evening.

[Ms NTL]

I no longer answer my phone....I get emails from both sides like this

I don't understand how you can sleep at night , get on with your day or feel okay to look yourself in the mirror knowing you will go down in history as those who didn't speak up with every power and platform you have .

You gave up before you started , you didn't even have the backbone to research and find out what is morally right . Rather like a coward you have believed the very propaganda that you taught us to dissect and analyse, critically review and strategically make educated and academic opinions on.

[Pierre]

Given Netanyahu’s speech at the press conference this evening, I’m sure it is now widely available to listen to.

Is there anything in that speech that the class disagree with?

https://www.youtube.com/live/LuAFVV-...KiK1_32UVubEUE

Originally Posted by Pierre

Is there anything in that speech that the class disagree with?

No idea, I dont have 30 minutes of my life to use up listening to it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Paul

No idea, I dont have 30 minutes of my life to use up listening to it.

His speech is only about 6mins followed by press Q&A, but the Q&A is also interesting.

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

I no longer answer my phone....I get emails from both sides like this

I don't understand how you can sleep at night , get on with your day or feel okay to look yourself in the mirror knowing you will go down in history as those who didn't speak up with every power and platform you have .

You gave up before you started , you didn't even have the backbone to research and find out what is morally right . Rather like a coward you have believed the very propaganda that you taught us to dissect and analyse, critically review and strategically make educated and academic opinions on.

Do you mind my asking … who is it you’re acquainted with that’s sending you this stuff? Are these genuine friends, business acquaintances, or mailing list emails you’re getting?

[TheDaddy]

Rafah crossing is opening temporarily tomorrow to allow 81 named seriously injured Palestinians to receive medical attention in Egypt, CF exclusive there

The amount of aid getting through will dramatically increase over the next couple of days too

Unconfirmed reports of Cypriot air traffic control trying to establish the identity planes which may prove interesting in the coming days/ weeks

Cyprus (well, the South) is offering to facilitate being a Humanitarian Corridor

https://cyprus-mail.com/2023/10/31/h...ays-president/

When I flew out from Larnaca on the 23rd, there were a lot more armed military in the airport.