Russia has invaded Ukraine

[Sephiroth]

Interesting final paragraph by Jfman. There’s right on your side (Ukraine) and real-politik. Short of a coup in Russia and “the right person” taking over, something’s gotta give.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m quite looking forward to see which way you break when inevitably the USA pulls the plug on fighting for every inch and tells Zelensky to get his pen out. That could truly demonstrate who has a Great Powers lens. The hedge funds will want to make bank out the reconstruction efforts sooner rather than later, and Biden probably doesn’t want it hanging over the 2024 election.

That Ukraine depends on American support doesn't mean they didn't enter this war, i.e decide to defend themselves from Russian invasion, of their own volition.

I don't know why you're always so keen to defend Russia and admonish Ukraine for their audacity to fight back against the country that invaded them and is killing them.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

That Ukraine depends on American support doesn't mean they didn't enter this war, i.e decide to defend themselves from Russian invasion, of their own volition.

I don't know why you're always so keen to defend Russia and admonish Ukraine for their audacity to fight back against the country that invaded them and is killing them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever admonished Ukraine for defending itself. I don’t think I’ve ever defended Russian actions either.

I don’t think it’s fair to consider my view that there’s greater complexity than the romantic view of Ukrainian men fighting to the death in a conscript army in that way. I don’t think it’s fair to mislead them if the USA will eventually pull the rug from under them.

As Seph points out above if the best hope is for a coup then I’m not convinced demonising Russians wherever they are in the world benefits the domestic opposition to Putin.

[pip08456]

What's goin on here???

https://targum.video/v/2023/8/15/2fd...1c1bafaa6548a/

[joglynne]

How bizarre.

Originally Posted by pip08456

What's goin on here???

https://targum.video/v/2023/8/15/2fd...1c1bafaa6548a/

Most likely the tank has been immobilised and they either spotted the Ukrainian reconnaissance drone or else assumed there was one nearby - in either case it was a reasonable guess that they were about to get either a grenade dropped on them or possibly have an artillery round called in (the Ukrainians have got very, very good at calling in accurate artillery fire via drone).

Even if none of that was true, the Russian tank crew was probably very drunk.

[pip08456]

Well, who'd of thought. I thought there was something else behind it.

Olha Kharlan, Ukraine’s Olympic champion in sabre fencing, received the Badge of Honour from the National Academy of the Security Service of Ukraine (SSU), where she has been working for a long time...

...I am proud to be an employee of the Security Service of Ukraine, in particular the National Academy of the SSU. And I am proud that the Russians know that I work for the SSU. Let them fear me!"

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/17/7416002/

Just makes her even cooler tbh

I think I’m in love …

(Not really, you’re the only one for me missus darling wife, but you get my point )

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think I’m in love …

(Not really, you’re the only one for me missus darling wife, but you get my point )

Agree entirely Chris, unlike you I'm single though.

I like the "Let them fear me" line!

[pip08456]

Netherlands. F-16, agreement on 42 jets for Ukraine.

Denmark. F-16, agreement on 19 jets for Ukraine and expansion of training missions of our pilots and engineers.

Doubt they will be supplied this year though as training is 6mths min.

There are suggestions going around today that they may have been training for up to 3 months already.

The main constraint for Denmark and the Netherlands has been the delivery schedule for their new F-35s which they are now starting to receive in quantity. This allows them to retire their F-16s. The Biden administration is still vainly trying to play Great Powers with this crisis and is dragging its heels on its own training offer as it has on granting approval of the jets’ transfer to Ukraine. But regardless of whatever they eventually offer with regards to training, the approvals for the Danish and Dutch transfer of these F-16s has been signed, and I suspect, if they thought they had managed to delay the appearance of these planes in theatre until early next year, they are in for a surprise.

[pip08456]

I certainly hope you are correct Chris. As regards the Netherlands they only have 24 in service, 18 have already been taken out, 12 of which were due to be sold to an American company but apparently the deal fell through. Perhaps Ukrainian maintainance crew are training on those to ensure they are ready for service?

https://theaviationist.com/2021/06/3...-f-16s-draken/

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

There are suggestions going around today that they may have been training for up to 3 months already.

In May, it was reported that the first 20 Ukrainian pilots had entered F-16 training in UK
https://kyivindependent.com/media-fi...raining-in-uk/

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In May, it was reported that the first 20 Ukrainian pilots had entered F-16 training in UK
https://kyivindependent.com/media-fi...raining-in-uk/

Technically, the UK training has been preliminary Nato tactical training rather than for the F-16 specifically. The UK doesn’t operate F-16s so we don’t have any of the actual aircraft or simulators for them to train on. US government approval would have been required even to transfer a simulator to the UK from another country.

Nevertheless there is plenty we can do for them using our own Hawk jets (very similar to Red Arrows aircraft) and I suspect this is what has been happening.