General Election

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Russ

So doesn’t that mean the past 13 years have been a “dictatorship” too?

Why would I want this? Easy, to punish the current shower of shit for the years of lies, corruptions and dishonesty that they don’t even bother hiding anymore. The contempt they have for the working classes like you and I. They way they’ve decimated funding for the NHS then blamed it on immigrant and striking staff. Speak of which, they way they’ve removed workers’ democratic right to strike and reduce our right to protest. They way they want to removed the ECHR. The way they’ve consistent broken international law. They way they’ve placed “stopping the boats” as their priority when we have a cost of living crisis. The way they have constantly lied about the “benefits” of Brexit. The damn stupid “oven ready deal” lie. Wage stagnation which for many puts us on equal earning terms from
2008.

Unless you’re a millionaire the last 13 years have not turned out well for anyone either.

I could go on and on but I need my breakfast. There are plenty of reasons why the **** Party need to be kept out of office for many years.

Nearly every problem Britain faces right now has one root cause and one only.

And that is the government and it's austerity cuts.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

But the perceived politics of one party is not a suitable baseline to start from (even assuming it’s true - and given that the NHS has been under Tory control for most of its existence, and about 30 of the last 44 years since 1979, if they really are trying to actually destroy it, they’ve been about as effective as Wile E. Coyote).

They can't just shut it down however much they'd like to as they'd never get in office again, no far better to inherit something that had very high levels of public satisfaction and run it down by starving it of money and making it an unpleasant place to work so the staff leave, how inconsiderate of the public not to fall for it and demand private health care

The point is, the welfare state introduced by the Attlee government (1945-1951) fundamentally changed the demands placed on whoever has been in power ever since, while at the same time the UK, Europe and the world began to come to terms with the massive economic and social restructuring demanded by the end of world war 2. Both parties have shown differing political priorities since then, but that is when the modern rules of the game were set, and that is why serious academic treatment of ‘modern era’ British government and politics starts with 1945, not friendly but ultimately quite arbitrary figures like ‘50 years’.

We're not academics though but interestingly if you type when did the modern era of British politics begin Wikipedia says 1979

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

So doesn’t that mean the past 13 years have been a “dictatorship” too?

Why would I want this? Easy, to punish the current shower of shit for the years of lies, corruptions and dishonesty that they don’t even bother hiding anymore. The contempt they have for the working classes like you and I. They way they’ve decimated funding for the NHS then blamed it on immigrant and striking staff. Speak of which, they way they’ve removed workers’ democratic right to strike and reduce our right to protest. They way they want to removed the ECHR. The way they’ve consistent broken international law. They way they’ve placed “stopping the boats” as their priority when we have a cost of living crisis. The way they have constantly lied about the “benefits” of Brexit. The damn stupid “oven ready deal” lie. Wage stagnation which for many puts us on equal earning terms from
2008.

Unless you’re a millionaire the last 13 years have not turned out well for anyone either.

I could go on and on but I need my breakfast. There are plenty of reasons why the **** Party need to be kept out of office for many years.

Exactly

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

We're not academics though but interestingly if you type when did the modern era of British politics begin Wikipedia says 1979

Not being an academic is what allows you to cite Wikipedia as a source - try that in an academic assignment and you’d feel the force of red ink.

[Russ]

I understand the same result occurs if you cite the Daily Fail

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not being an academic is what allows you to cite Wikipedia as a source - try that in an academic assignment and you’d feel the force of red ink.

Not taking myself to seriously allows me to do that, thought the emoji made that clear but I was probably being a bit to low brow for you

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not being an academic is what allows you to cite Wikipedia as a source - try that in an academic assignment and you’d feel the force of red ink.

If it's a curated page on Wikipedia and not one that anyone can edit then no good reason these days not to view it as a reliable source.

Wikipedia does seem to split up the periods 1945-1979 as post war and 1979 to date as modern history. I can understand why they might do this given the significant and lasting changes that Margaret Thatcher's governments brought to the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...2%80%93present)

Originally Posted by Russ

Why would I want this? Easy, to punish the current shower of shit for the years of lies, corruptions and dishonesty that they don’t even bother hiding anymore.

Right, because all previous governments have been such well behaved angels.

Originally Posted by Russ

I could go on and on but I need my breakfast. There are plenty of reasons why the **** Party need to be kept out of office for many years.

Yes, your personal hate for the conservative party is perfectly clear.
There is a difference between 'years' and 'decades', but your hatred seems blind you to anything.
We should also "punish" Labour for decades - for the lies, corruptions and dishonesty they managed under Blair. Right ?

Still, I'm sure all your troubles and woes will disappear after the next election.

[Russ]

Tory lovers always seem to do this.

Are any of Blair’s government still in frontline politics?

Sorry, what’s that? No they’re not?

When you can demonstrate such corruption as £32bn spaffed off to their mates for companies that were registered in hotel rooms a week previously plus all the other blatant corruption, and placing those pesky boats over tackling the cost of living crisis, all from the current Labour Party then you’ll have a point.

And no my “woes” will still be there at the election. But I will happily be celebrating the mass sacking of Tory ministers

Originally Posted by Russ

Tory lovers always seem to do this.

What Tory lovers ? Do what ?

Originally Posted by Russ

Are any of Blair’s government still in frontline politics?

Sorry, what’s that? No they’re not?

No, they are not, and neither will any of the current government in decades time. In fact most wont get past the next election, so whats your point again ?

[Russ]

You blaming previous Labour MPs who don’t have any chance of getting back in to frontline politics again. That would be like me blaming Thatcher’s cabinet for this current shower of shit.

Your point is completely moot. This current shower of shit need to be kept out of government and most are too egotistical to do the right thing and leave politics altogether.

No doubt they’ll try again in 5 or 6 years time.

They need to be punished for their corruption by being kept out of politics. Nobody has said previous government have been squeaky clean. But none have been as corrupt and blatantly full of lies like this lot.

Originally Posted by Russ

You blaming previous Labour MPs who don’t have any chance of getting back in to frontline politics again. That would be like me blaming Thatcher’s cabinet for this current shower of shit.

Indeed, or much like someone stating "I hope he’s made his party unelectable for decades to come" due to the current 'shower of shit'. Sound familiar ?

[Russ]

Yeah I said it. I’ve also previously made it clear I’m anti-Tory.

What’s your point?

You need a strong opposition otherwise the Government can get away with whatever it wants. Some of the Tory issues are because for a good portion of the last 13 years the Labour Party forgot it was meant to be the Opposition with the goal being to become the Government and instead went on a self-indulgent tour.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?


*not including the farrago that was the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)

Right, so I’ll have a go at the question now, rather than having a go at the question

I am going to vote Labour next year. The reality is I would have to have voted for them no matter what because they are the only viable opposition to the SNP in the constituency I moved into last year. My last home was in a constituency that has been Tory, Labour and SNP in the last 15 years giving me a genuine three-way choice few people anywhere in the UK enjoy.

However, I will not really be holding my nose to vote for them …. Well, not much anyway. I think we need a change and Labour’s the only national opposition. Evicting the Conservative Party from government means voting for the Labour Party and that’s all there is to it. Maybe that’s a negative choice but it’s the choice I have (over and above the imperative of getting the Nat out).

My hesitancy in voting Labour however isn’t the centrists who are presently in charge. Starmer was DPP so is bound to be a competent manager at least. I actually quite like the likes of Yvette Cooper, who is quite thoughtful, and Angela Rayner, who is a proper Commons bruiser of the sort our political system needs in order to function well.

My hesitancy is, and has always been, who the lunatic fringe are. Now I’m not saying only Labour has fringe nutters, of course very movement has them. But I fear that Labour’s hard left is always likely to do more lasting damage to the fabric of society than the Tory far right. Think Diane Abbott. Richard Burgon. John McDonnell. Most of the ones who served in Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow cabinet basically. If/when Labour gets in, it is likely to be in power for at least 2 terms, which is more than enough time for the political pendulum within the parliamentary party to veer back to the left. And that worries me.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

You need a strong opposition otherwise the Government can get away with whatever it wants. Some of the Tory issues are because for a good portion of the last 13 years the Labour Party forgot it was meant to be the Opposition with the goal being to become the Government and instead went on a self-indulgent tour.

This is why I don’t fully trust Starmer and would much prefer some kind of coalition to help keep him in check. Let’s face it any kind of Labour government would be an improvement on the useless chumps we’ve got in power right now but in an ideal world it has to be more than a case of “get anyone in other than the Tories”. It has to be the right set-up to undo the horrific corruption and damage caused by Cameron, May, Truss the economy killer , Boris the king bullshitter and Sunak.