General Election

Originally Posted by Pierre

That’s all very interesting, but without the fiction put forward by Blair and Campbell, I would doubt they would have been able to sell it to the wider Tory benches.

Agreed - I was active in the Party at this time, and we were told to shut up about our misgivings…

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

Quite simply because they are not the “Labour” party. I don’t know what to call them.

You know what you’re getting with Conservatives, this current lot aren’t up to much, but you know what you’re getting.

I don’t know what this Labour iteration stands for.

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

Just waste money, don’t get me wrong I know the Tories have wasted money, they do get a bit of a pass with COVID.

But, I trust Labour even less with the economy.

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?

A vision, a different leader.

Major, turned the economy around and we were in a really good place. But Blair came in, young, dynamic with a vision and message. If John Smith had not died. I believe Major would have won again.

Starmer is no Blair. Starmer is the only reason the Tories still may have an outside chance….or at least a hung Parliament.

Starmer, is a politician guided by the wind, he’ll go whatever way it’s blowing.

In short, I don’t like him, and I don’t like very many of the Labour front bench.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

My initial take is that the framing of the question is slightly wrong. The issue is not really should I vote for Labour, rather it is, given the damage inflicted on the country under Conservative governments, why wouldn't you vote Labour/LibDem/SNP/etc?

I can answer your framing of the question.

I wouldn’t vote Labour because they are at the other end of my political spectrum. Their right is nearly respectable but nevertheless power hungry politicians who want their slice of power.

The Lib Dems as a party are *******s. They want to kick motorists to death, kill the high street, turn road lanes into cycle ways that hardly anyone will use. *******s (politically). And they want to rejoin the EU.

The Tories, the least worst of a bad bunch. Nevertheless, the Tories are toast and the fickle public will get an even poorer deal because they’ll turn the Tories out.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It wasn’t that simple - Iain Duncan Smith strongly supported it, because of his links to US neo-Cons, and dragged the Party along with him.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...acked-the-war/

I thought that before going to war, the Government of the day shared all the information from the intelligence services with the Leader of the Opposition. From what I recall Blair was given intelligence that Iraq had WMD and this was shared with the Opposition.

It is a separate discussion whether Blair should have challenged it, requesting verification, etc.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Starmer is no Blair. Starmer is the only reason the Tories still may have an outside chance….or at least a hung Parliament.

Starmer, is a politician guided by the wind, he’ll go whatever way it’s blowing.

In short, I don’t like him, and I don’t like very many of the Labour front bench.

I don't think there is a lot of talent in the Labour Party - or the Tories for that matter - so Starmer probably is doing well for them. Even with the Tories doing badly we shouldn't forget how much Corbyn damaged the party. The fact Starmer has positive ratings and Labour do on most issues is quite the turnaround since 2019.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think there is a lot of talent in the Labour Party - or the Tories for that matter - so Starmer probably is doing well for them. Even with the Tories doing badly we shouldn't forget how much Corbyn damaged the party. The fact Starmer has positive ratings and Labour do on most issues is quite the turnaround since 2019.

Agreed, but it’s a low bar. The fact he’s the best they have is saddening.

Also, the fact that Sunak is the best the Tories have is equally as saddening.

You know what makes this even worse?


Compared to this lot Cameron looks like a statesman with gravitas and a calm hand on the tiller.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Agreed, but it’s a low bar. The fact he’s the best they have is saddening.

Also, the fact that Sunak is the best the Tories have is equally as saddening.

You know what makes this even worse?


Compared to this lot Cameron looks like a statesman with gravitas and a calm hand on the tiller.

So who do you choose? Cameron gambled that no plonker could possibly vote for Brexit. He resigned because he knew he'd screwed the country's future, all for his own political survival .

Just look at the state of the UK after 13 years of the Tories, and the fall out from Cameron's cock up. We're in a worse state in every way. You used to be able to vaguely trust them with the economy but no more. If the Monster Raving Loonies were the main opposition, they'd get my vote. Cameron is the main cause of our ills.

Sir K - we'll' have to wait and see but under our electoral system, he's the only alternative. And any alternative is better than we currently have.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

So who do you choose? Cameron gambled that no plonker could possibly vote for Brexit. He resigned because he knew he'd screwed the country's future, all for his own political survival .

Oh, he royally screwed himself, his party and the country. It was a gamble, a huge gamble and it failed.

If he had of won. He’d still be PM now.

But, like Major before him, he had to address it. Unlike Major, he lost.

Just look at the state of the UK after 13 years of the Tories, and the fall out from Cameron's cock up. We're in a worse state in every way. You used to be able to vaguely trust them with the economy but no more. If the Monster Raving Loonies were the main opposition, they'd get my vote. Cameron is the main cause of our ills.

I don’t agree with that assessment.

Unfortunately COVID did for this government. Plan and simple. Without COVID Johnson is still PM and who knows where we are……

Sir K - we'll' have to wait and see but under our electoral system, he's the only alternative. And any alternative is better than we currently have.

He is the only alternative, I disagree that “any” alternative is better, just because it’s the alternative.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t agree with that assessment.

Unfortunately COVID did for this government. Plan and simple. Without COVID Johnson is still PM and who knows where we are……

.

So how is the UK much better now than in 2010?

Covid has only been the last few years. There were 10 years of the Tories before that. Austerity and Brexit were massive blunders, the UK has stagnated with negligible growth. Compared to our peers, we're bottom of the class. An economic ageing backwater, reliant on food banks and immigrants to do the crap cheap jobs.

[Itshim]

Living under labour all I would say is be careful what you wish for

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

So how is the UK much better now than in 2010?

It’s not. It’s worse.

Covid has only been the last few years.

You can’t measure covid in time, unless you’re very simple. covid may have been 3 yrs or so, but its economic impact was immense. People were paid tens of thousands a month for doing nothing. I know that may normal for you ( being paid by the state for doing nothing) But not for me. I also worked 100% through covid.

There were 10 years of the Tories before that.

yes, and they were pretty good.

the UK has stagnated with negligible growth. Compared to our peers, we're bottom of the class.

I don’t think that’s accurate, but feel free to back it up with facts.

[Russ]

In all honestly I’d vote anyone but Tory. In fact that ought to be an option at the ballot.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

In all honestly I’d vote anyone but Tory. In fact that ought to be an option at the ballot.

And that is absolutely acceptable and your choice.

However, whenever I see a post like that, what I’m seeing is an emotional response. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but it’s not really objective is it?


It’s like a Man Utd fan saying, I wish anyone will win the the league/ champions league than Liverpool.

Yeah, thanks for your input but it doesn’t really move us along much, if at all.

[Russ]

I’ve never known any post requiring to “move things along”.

I’d call it pretty objective to be honest. I’ve never voted Tory in my life but I have never detested a government as much as the one we’ve had since 2010. Firstly it was the decade of austerity, then it was the era of lies, deception and corruption. It could be argued those factors have always been in government but this shower of shit have just been so blatant about it they’re not even bothering to try and hide it.

People have said the Tories are suffering from “long Boris” and good thing too. I hope he’s made his party unelectable for decades to come. My best hope is some kind of Labour coalition with the Lib Dems or Green Party. I don’t like the direction Starmer is taking Labour but I do think they’re the best of an awful bunch so they need another party in power alongside them to pull back on the reigns where needed.

Hell I’d even vote Plaid Cymru before I’d vote Tory.

[Pierre]

I think if I had “long Boris”, I’d welcome a bullet!