The Chronicles of Rishi

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Thanks but that's not really what I'm getting at, she said her staff are ostracised for not being liberal-minded well, what did she do about it? She makes out she's a leader, what did she do when members of her team needed support, I guessing feck all because this was all a bizarre rant lapped up by a willing audience

You hit the nail on the head.

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why is it reasonable to put a child in isolation because their parent hasn't paid something?

The child is be in being punished for something they haven't done.

It's the new Tory way: "Punish the children for the sins of the parents". Mmmm ... I can see the beginnings of a new red meat tag line forming here: "Be Angry, Make Them Pay"

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why is it reasonable to put a child in isolation because their parent hasn't paid something?

The child is be in being punished for something they haven't done.

Are they in “isolation”? Or just sitting on a different table?

But rather than focus on the child sitting on the table, why not think about why they’re on the table.

Because their parent, that can afford to pay for school dinners, can’t be arsed.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

It's the new Tory way: "Punish the children for the sins of the parents".

Just give me a straight answer to a straight question.

Should parents that have signed up to pay, and can pay, for school dinners for a school that have budgeted for that. And then decide to ignore that contractual obligation, just walk away Scott free?


Yes or no.


From your perspective, only needs a yes or no answer.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Are they in “isolation”? Or just sitting on a different table?

But rather than focus on the child sitting on the table, why not think about why they’re on the table.

Because their parent, that can afford to pay for school dinners, can’t be arsed.

Well, the parent isn't the one putting them into a separate room.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...unch-isolation

According to a teacher from another school who visited Michaela, the isolation entails pupils eating a packed lunch in a separate room while doing school work supervised by a teacher..

I have no issues with the parents being sanctioned, but not surexwhygthe kids should be punished for the parents wrongdoings.

They were being punished the same as pupils who were guilty of “serious misconduct” or those who miss a detention.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/isolation-...chool-leaders/

But children with outstanding debt are being removed from the lunches and placed in isolation – which is normally used for pupils guilty of “serious misconduct” or those who miss a detention, who spend the whole day away from others.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why is it reasonable to put a child in isolation because their parent hasn't paid something?

The child is be in being punished for something they haven't done.

Speaking as a retired teacher I agree wholeheartedly.It would be like separating out those students who receive free school dinners and making them eat separately from the rest. Which happened to me as a recipient of free school dinners and something I observed with disgust as a teacher.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I have no issues with the parents being sanctioned

How do you sanction the parent? make them sit by themselves for lunch?

This is about parents flouting their obligation.

again to be clear

the policy didn’t apply to pupils on free school meals – more than one in five of those attending the school near Wembley Stadium – or for those with money problems.

I mean you could always just kick the kid out of school, would that be a better strategy.

How would you compel the parent the pay the outstanding debt? I know that £75 is pretty much near a whole half term, it's not an oversight.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy

Speaking as a retired teacher I agree wholeheartedly.It would be like separating out those students who receive free school dinners and making them eat separately from the rest. Which happened to me as a recipient of free school dinners and something I observed with disgust as a teacher.

Likewise, but this is not about stigmatising poor pupils that cannot afford school dinners. This is people that can afford school dinners making a decision not to pay.

How would you deal with it?


It's the same situation in society, that if one person decides to flout the rules and get away with it, everyone will.

Personally, I'd advise them that if the bill isn't settled the child will be excluded from school.

So I guess that puts me even further to the extreme than the nutty Head mistress!

Originally Posted by Pierre

How do you sanction the parent? make them sit by themselves for lunch?

This is about parents flouting their obligation.

again to be clear

I mean you could always just kick the kid out of school, would that be a better strategy.

How would you compel the parent the pay the outstanding debt? I know that £75 is pretty much near a whole half term, it's not an oversight.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------



Likewise, but this is not about stigmatising poor pupils that cannot afford school dinners. This is people that can afford school dinners making a decision not to pay.

How would you deal with it?


It's the same situation in society, that if one person decides to flout the rules and get away with it, everyone will.

Personally, I'd advise them that if the bill isn't settled the child will be excluded from school.

So I guess that puts me even further to the extreme than the nutty Head mistress!

I would NOT punish the child.THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR PARENTS STUPIDITY. YOU are being ridiculous and extremely petty.

Originally Posted by Pierre

How do you sanction the parent? make them sit by themselves for lunch?

This is about parents flouting their obligation.

again to be clear

I mean you could always just kick the kid out of school, would that be a better strategy.

How would you compel the parent the pay the outstanding debt? I know that £75 is pretty much near a whole half term, it's not an oversight.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------



Likewise, but this is not about stigmatising poor pupils that cannot afford school dinners. This is people that can afford school dinners making a decision not to pay.

How would you deal with it?


It's the same situation in society, that if one person decides to flout the rules and get away with it, everyone will.

Personally, I'd advise them that if the bill isn't settled the child will be excluded from school.

So I guess that puts me even further to the extreme than the nutty Head mistress!

It’s not about "right" or "left", it’s about whether one agrees it’s appropriate to punish children for something that’s not their fault or responsibility.

You think it’s appropriate, others disagree…

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Maggy

I would NOT punish the child.THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR PARENTS STUPIDITY. YOU are being ridiculous and extremely petty.

You could also try answering the question.

---------- Post added at 10:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

It’s not about "right" or "left", it’s about whether one agrees it’s appropriate to punish children for something that’s not their fault or responsibility.

You think it’s appropriate, others disagree…

You could also try answering the question

I don’t answer simplistic false dichotomies…

You’re saying it’s either/or - it isn’t.

[tweetiepooh]

But how can the school sanction the parents? Plus what does the child learn if they go home and the parents show that they can get away with theft?



It's not really fair but someone always loses with crime, the victim is not always be apparent. Maybe there is hope that a minor discomfort to the child will lead to a better response from the parents and if the parents are willing to allow their child to pay for their wrong doing there is more at stake here than simple non-payment for meals.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t answer simplistic false dichotomies…

You’re saying it’s either/or - it isn’t.

I'm not asking a simplistic false scenario, it's also not an either / or.

I'm asking what you would do.

I've said what I would do. You have disagreed with her, and mine, solutions.

I'm simply asking what you would do?

[ianch99]

I would think that the Education Authority would be the best vehicle to pursue these parents, in the same way they do for parents who take their children out of school during term time. If it is proven that they have the funds to pay for the meals then they could be fined appropriately.

Punishing the children for the sins of the parents sounds a bit hard-core Old Testament.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I would think that the Education Authority would be the best vehicle to pursue these parents, in the same way they do for parents who take their children out of school during term time. If it is proven that they have the funds to pay for the meals then they could be fined appropriately.

Punishing the children for the sins of the parents sounds a bit hard-core Old Testament.

Academies and Free Schools are not controlled by an LEA, also if the parents are not willing to pay, what will fining them achieve? they can just ignore that too.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Academies and Free Schools are not controlled by an LEA, also if the parents are not willing to pay, what will fining them achieve? they can just ignore that too.

Then there's your answer: bring the schools back under state control where they belong.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I'm not asking a simplistic false scenario, it's also not an either / or.

I'm asking what you would do.

I've said what I would do. You have disagreed with her, and mine, solutions.

I'm simply asking what you would do?

They are still being given a sandwich and a piece of fruit if their parents are in default, so I would let them sit with their friends and eat those, rather than isolate them from their peers.

Their parents (probably) won’t care if the kids are isolated, so only the kids are being punished for something that they have no accountability or responsibility for - that isn’t equitable.