Five Memphis police officers charged over death of Tyre Nichols

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mythica

But we all need to take responsibility for our actions.

But he can't do that, coz he's dead

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

But he can't do that, coz he's dead

Clearly, which he might not have been if he had complied from the off.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Clearly, which he might not have been if he had complied from the off.

There you go again, implying that it was somehow the victims fault that he died.

Originally Posted by Mythica

Clearly, which he might not have been if he had complied from the off.

Spoken like a white man.

I think you have no idea what it’s like to view these encounters from the perspective of someone who is twice as likely to be shot and killed by police as an ethnically white person.*

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...oups-rcna17169

* disclaimer - I’m a white man so I don’t know what it feels like either. But I believe it’s possible to infer a little by reference to statistics and personal testimony. I also believe it’s important that we privileged few try to do so.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

There you go again, implying that it was somehow the victims fault that he died.

Am I? If you leave you car unlocked and get valuables stolen from it, (or locked and valuables on show) I wouldn't take the blame away from the people that stole said items. Its still stupid to leave valuables on show in your car though, just as its stupid to resist arrest and run away from the Police, but I ain't saying he deserved to die by the beating he got. Though you can question the actions he took without actually blaming him for being dead.

It's simple logic to be honest.

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Spoken like a white man.

I think you have no idea what it’s like to view these encounters from the perspective of someone who is twice as likely to be shot and killed by police as an ethnically white person.*

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...oups-rcna17169

* disclaimer - I’m a white man so I don’t know what it feels like either. But I believe it’s possible to infer a little by reference to statistics and personal testimony. I also believe it’s important that we privileged few try to do so.

Isn't that just slightly racist? Especially considering you don't actually know me or my skin colour.

I ask again, at what percentage risk of being harmed was he at if he had complied? Considering the vast majority of Police stops never even hit the news.

Originally Posted by Mythica

Am I? If you leave you car unlocked and get valuables stolen from it, (or locked and valuables on show) I wouldn't take the blame away from the people that stole said items. Its still stupid to leave valuables on show in your car though, just as its stupid to resist arrest and run away from the Police, but I ain't saying he deserved to die by the beating he got. Though you can question the actions he took without actually blaming him for being dead.

It's simple logic to be honest.

It actually isn’t, and your analogy is deeply flawed. If you believe you’re at risk of serious harm by staying put, and unfolding events show that risk is increasing, the potential benefits of running away begin to outweigh the risks of it.

This issue simply can’t be reduced to a comparison with an unlocked car, by which you demonstrate an almost comical lack of understanding of race relations in the USA.

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Mythica

Isn't that just slightly racist? Especially considering you don't actually know me or my skin colour.

I ask again, at what percentage risk of being harmed was he at if he had complied? Considering the vast majority of Police stops never even hit the news.

As a white man I’m hardly being racist critiquing the attitudes I observe within my own community.

And yes, I’m pretty sure you’re also a white man. Please don’t try to get me to back down with weak insinuations - if you’re something other than ethnically white just say so and I’ll retract my comments.

The relevant statistic here is that black men are twice as likely to die at the hands of the police as white men in the USA. And the relevant fact from this specific incident was that he was *already*being*harmed* by his compliance. Unless you think a taser up the arse while someone yells in your face telling you to do what you’re already doing doesn’t constitute ‘harm’.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Chris

It actually isn’t, and your analogy is deeply flawed. If you believe you’re at risk of serious harm by staying put, and unfolding events show that risk is increasing, the potential benefits of running away begin to outweigh the risks of it.

This issue simply can’t be reduced to a comparison with an unlocked car, by which you demonstrate an almost comical lack of understanding of race relations in the USA.

The only risk there was at the time of the stop was past happenings in America which no doubt is a extremely small percentage considering the amount of stops they do. At that point of been pulled from the car and been told to lay on the floor, he failed to comply. At no point was there risk to his life shown other than again a small percentage of past happenings.

I'm not comparing the issue to a locked car, I'm comparing victim blaming to a locked car.

---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

It actually isn’t, and your analogy is deeply flawed. If you believe you’re at risk of serious harm by staying put, and unfolding events show that risk is increasing, the potential benefits of running away begin to outweigh the risks of it.

This issue simply can’t be reduced to a comparison with an unlocked car, by which you demonstrate an almost comical lack of understanding of race relations in the USA.

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------



As a white man I’m hardly being racist critiquing the attitudes I observe within my own community.

And yes, I’m pretty sure you’re also a white man. Please don’t try to get me to back down with weak insinuations - if you’re something other than ethnically white just say so and I’ll retract my comments.

The relevant statistic here is that black men are twice as likely to die at the hands of the police as white men in the USA. And the relevant fact from this specific incident was that he was *already*being*harmed* by his compliance. Unless you think a taser up the arse while someone yells in your face telling you to do what you’re already doing doesn’t constitute ‘harm’.

What's the fact your a white man got to do with anything? You directly quoted my post with the quote "spoken like a white man", not knowing the colour of my skin, simply because I have a difference of opinion. The very fact you'll retract your comment if it turns out I am black speaks volumes about the comment itself.

That's not the relevant statistic at all. The relevant statistic should be at what percentage are black men beaten by Police. Just because they are twice as likely to die at the hands of the Police (which we all know is a problem which shouldn't happen) doesn't mean he was at a high risk of dying at the hands of the Police. You could go even further and break down how many black men are killed by Police that are white and that are black.

I don't disagree there is a problem in the USA, but that wasn't my point.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Where is the evidence to say that the pulled him over to seriously harm him? Running away from the Police is never going to end well in any circumstances, never mind in America where they have guns.

He was being beaten up and tasered whilst complying with police instructions. That's the evidence.

As I said, would you have remained there knowing you could easily get beaten to death? Or would you flee to increase your chances of living?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He was being beaten up and tasered whilst complying with police instructions. That's the evidence.

As I said, would you have remained there knowing you could easily get beaten to death? Or would you flee to increase your chances of living?

A point that’s been made multiple times before yet ignored as it doesn’t fit the beliefs…..

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He was being beaten up and tasered whilst complying with police instructions. That's the evidence.

As I said, would you have remained there knowing you could easily get beaten to death? Or would you flee to increase your chances of living?

At the point of being dragged from the car, he wasn't getting beat up yet still resisted. So he wasn't complying originally.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mythica

At the point of being dragged from the car, he wasn't getting beat up yet still resisted. So he wasn't complying originally.

And you’re wrong again….

The footage released only begins after police confront him at an intersection at 8:24pm local time - police say the initial traffic stop was not filmed but we don't know why.

Footage of Mr Nichols' fatal encounter with Memphis police
He is immediately dragged out of the car and thrown to the ground by officers with guns drawn.
"I didn't do anything!" Mr Nichols says early on, and he complies with the officers' instructions.

From
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64442019

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And you’re wrong again….

The footage released only begins after police confront him at an intersection at 8:24pm local time - police say the initial traffic stop was not filmed but we don't know why.

Footage of Mr Nichols' fatal encounter with Memphis police
He is immediately dragged out of the car and thrown to the ground by officers with guns drawn.
"I didn't do anything!" Mr Nichols says early on, and he complies with the officers' instructions.

From
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64442019

None of what you have written states I'm wrong apart from the part that states he complied, he never, they told him to lay face down to which he repeatedly kept twisting and talking to them. That's not what he was asked to do.

Originally Posted by Mythica

At the point of being dragged from the car, he wasn't getting beat up yet still resisted. So he wasn't complying originally.

That’s not what happened…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2271825.html

The first part of the hour-long video showed the officers pulling over the young man, forcing him out of the vehicle and onto the floor.

One of them is heard to say: “B**ch put your hands behind your back before I break them.” An officer then threatens Nichols that “I’m going to knock your ass the f**k out.”

Nichols responds: “You guys are really doing a lot right now. I’m just trying to go home.”

The video shows the officers trying to use their Tasers on Nichols, who then runs from the scene.

Originally Posted by Mythica

At the point of being dragged from the car, he wasn't getting beat up yet still resisted. So he wasn't complying originally.

And you don’t think that his being dragged from the car without first having an opportunity to get out of his own accord might just have set the tone for the entire incident?

I’m really struggling to understand why you’re so desperate to apply cold logic to a situation that from the outset was the diametric opposite of that. Everything that happened to this guy from the moment he stopped his car contributed to the sense that he was not safe and it only went downhill from there.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s not what happened…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2271825.html

You've just used a longer quote to show what I said. He was dragged from the car and pushed to the floor with instructions to lay face first which were ignored, hence resisting.

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

And you don’t think that his being dragged from the car without first having an opportunity to get out of his own accord might just have set the tone for the entire incident?

I’m really struggling to understand why you’re so desperate to apply cold logic to a situation that from the outset was the diametric opposite of that. Everything that happened to this guy from the moment he stopped his car contributed to the sense that he was not safe and it only went downhill from there.

That happens often, even over here.

Because its good to have a differing opinion. It also brings to the point on why so many people fail to understand that resisting is never going to work well.