Russia has invaded Ukraine

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by jfman

Not particularly, anyone with that amount of wealth almost certainly hasn’t acquired it legitimately.

and yet they're all part of the same apparatus, at different levels admittedly

Originally Posted by jfman

From the man who reduced all embassy or consular services to this:

I agree, it’s funny.

That’s an interesting interpretation of my post…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Not particularly, anyone with that amount of wealth almost certainly hasn’t acquired it legitimately.
<SNIP>

Depends what you mean by 'legitimately'. Yeltsin created the legal framework through which state companies could be bought by individuals.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Depends what you mean by 'legitimately'. Yeltsin created the legal framework through which state companies could be bought by individuals.

A legal framework drowning in corruption isn’t legitimate.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

A legal framework drowning in corruption isn’t legitimate.

As I said, it depends on the meaning of the word. It was legitimate in Russia then.

[tweetiepooh]

Cynic mode on.
Irish companies slated because they are supplying Russian embassy.
Irish companies "boycott" embassy.
Russia complains to Irish government.
Irish government say it's a private matter.
Embassy says there is a duty to supply under various conventions.
Irish government force companies to resume supplies for legal reasons outside their control.
Companies resume supply pointing to government.
UN slated for not allowing companies to "boycott" embassies of "nasty" countries.
UN ignores comments.
Everyone is happier.
Cynic mode off.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s ultimately a war about ideology, common sense has long since departed. Might as well be in the 1970s again.

Russian citizens are fair game.

You forgot to complete your sentence:

Russian citizens, who choose, voluntarily, to work for and represent an autocratic regime currently committing war crimes on defenceless civilians, are fair game

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You forgot to complete your sentence:

No it was complete as is, thank you.

It’s not the civil servants working in an embassy that are impacted if it ceases to function - they’ll still get paid to put their feet up or get redeployed elsewhere.

It’s the service users - ordinary Russians. I get that being an alien concept to some.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

No it was complete as is, thank you.

It’s not the civil servants working in an embassy that are impacted if it ceases to function - they’ll still get paid to put their feet up or get redeployed elsewhere.

It’s the service users - ordinary Russians. I get that being an alien concept to some.

You seem to prioritise the very small number of Russian citizens in Eire over the Irish people's ability to exercise their rights not to do business with the Russians. Let the Irish make their choices and the Russian Government can handle the consequences. After all, they have the money to handle the fallout.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You seem to prioritise the very small number of Russian citizens in Eire over the Irish people's ability to exercise their rights not to do business with the Russians. Let the Irish make their choices and the Russian Government can handle the consequences. After all, they have the money to handle the fallout.

Hmmm.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Hmmm.

You liked my choice of words

Originally Posted by jfman

No it was complete as is, thank you.

It’s not the civil servants working in an embassy that are impacted if it ceases to function - they’ll still get paid to put their feet up or get redeployed elsewhere.

It’s the service users - ordinary Russians. I get that being an alien concept to some.

Russian citizens inconvenienced as a result of their government’s murderous rampage across someone else’s sovereign territory? See, how tiny is my violin. Part of the long-term problem here is your average Russian citizen’s indifference to the actions of their government. They generally don’t care if it doesn’t affect them, and when it does affect them they run away (if they can afford to). Wars have a habit of affecting bystanders (just ask the women and children of Bucha. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, they got raped and thrown in mass graves). Russia’s actions are vile and indefensible and there comes a point where the citizens of that country are inevitably going to experience consequences. War is unfair like that.

Notwithstanding any of the above, it’s quite possible for an embassy experiencing difficulties to operate a bare minimum emergency service or even to provide assistance to its nationals via a friendly third party.

(Equivocation and whataboutery incoming in 3 … 2 … 1…)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You seem to prioritise the very small number of Russian citizens in Eire over the Irish people's ability to exercise their rights not to business with the Russians. Let the Irish make their choices and the Russian Government can handle the consequences. After all, they have the money to handle the fallout.

There’s no prioritisation indicated by any of my posts. Ireland has obligations and should continue to adhere to them. If your contention is that Russian citizens around the world should be inconvenienced and essentially penalised for the actions of the Russian state then that’s a very, very slippery slope.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

(Equivocation and whataboutery incoming in 3 … 2 … 1…)

The irony, given that was 99% of the content of your post.

As my initial post was Russian citizens are fair game, thanks for confirming it is your position. I doubt it will have the desired outcome at scale.

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s ultimately a war about ideology, common sense has long since departed. Might as well be in the 1970s again.

Russian citizens are fair game.

[Sephiroth]

It's the classic political dilemma - which is at the heart of politcal dishonesty.

It would be politically honest for western governments to break off diplomatic relations with Russia. But then they'd be in tent/piss territory - potentially unable to call an ambassador in for the proverbial dressing down.

Which brings us back to Ireland and the government's obligations under the Vienna convention.

Originally Posted by jfman

No it was complete as is, thank you.

It’s not the civil servants working in an embassy that are impacted if it ceases to function - they’ll still get paid to put their feet up or get redeployed elsewhere.

It’s the service users - ordinary Russians. I get that being an alien concept to some.

Bit of an inconvenience, it’s true - probably not as inconvenient as the daily cruise missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians, though, killing and wounding many and leaving them with no heating, power, or water, or the crimes committed by Russian forces, including unlawful attacks, wilful killings of civilians, torture, and extrajudicial executions, but let’s get outraged by the fact that the Russian Embassy in Ireland isn’t getting it’s diesel (which was in fact in April, and has since been resolved, unlike the ongoing carnage in Ukraine…).