Britain outside the EU

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not really bothered about that to be honest - we’re not really a big flag-waving nation. It’s more the symbolism of the disengagement from EU institutions and structures I was pointing out. The main advantage is that signage no longer implies we should be grateful for largesse paid for with our own money.

It is quite depressing that people are content in celebrating the removal of insignia with the price paid for the removal of such trivia being the structural impoverishment of the nation and the visceral division of our society.

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is quite depressing that people are content in celebrating the removal of insignia

That is what Democracy does and those who voted to leave chose. That little detail you conveniently Keep ignoring Ianch.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

That is what Democracy does and those who voted to leave chose. That little detail you conveniently Keep ignoring Ianch.

No, this is not to do with the vote anymore. It is the honesty of those who voted to Leave, knowing that this would have severe economic & societal consequences and to then ignore, and worse, misrepresent the reality that was foretold.

There are those, like you and Seph, who will stand up and say: "Yes, I was prepared for the downsides and was happy with these consequences". I fundamentally disagree with you but I respect the honesty. There are others, however, who will not be this honest and will, and this is the unsavoury part, will go out of their way to pretend that there is no downside and try and gaslight the situation.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is quite depressing that people are content in celebrating the removal of insignia with the price paid for the removal of such trivia being the structural impoverishment of the nation and the visceral division of our society.

"Such trivia" refers to the small proportion of what we paid into the EU that we got back at their discretion.

It is, of course, a great shame that the stupid Guvmin doesn't seem to be improving on that.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

"Such trivia" refers to the small proportion of what we paid into the EU that we got back at their discretion.

It is, of course, a great shame that the stupid Guvmin doesn't seem to be improving on that.

I think the problem is they didn't have a plan B (some might say they didn't even have a plan A, but that's another discussion). We left with our Government expecting the world to be tripping over itself to get us to sign a trade deal and we'd all be living on milk and honey. Meanwhile in the real world, that hasn't happened and most of the rest of the world has watched us threaten to renegade on the biggest deal we signed and then acting like a child crying because we've not got our own way. The next PM and their team need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves how they're going to repair out reputation which is becoming evermore tarnished. Let's have at least the bones of a plan - the meat can come later, but give us some idea what direction they plan to follow otherwise HMS UK will end up going in circles getting nowhere. One thing we must not do is sign deals at any price, and a good start would be employing people who can read to at least have a quick glance through any deal before we sign. That would be an improvement on what appears to have happened with the deal we signed with the EU.

Oh and I got my new photocard the other day and didn't notice any flag, but then I can't say I ever noticed any flag on my old one either. Trust me when I say there're many many more important things to worry about in life.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

"Such trivia" refers to the small proportion of what we paid into the EU that we got back at their discretion.

It is, of course, a great shame that the stupid Guvmin doesn't seem to be improving on that.

Your hindsight is flawed. We were part of the EU and any monies sent and/or received were sanctioned by us as a member state.

Of course, the whole point is moot since the financial cost of Brexit has now exceeded the total of the monies we paid into the EU as a member state. Sort of sums up the whole debacle.

[Qtx]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No, this is not to do with the vote anymore. It is the honesty of those who voted to Leave, knowing that this would have severe economic & societal consequences

I think many blame leaving the EU for everything, ignoring the timing of covid/other external factors and the fact many EU countries are having some similar financial difficulties at the moment. We outperformed many main EU countries some quarters too.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Qtx

I think many blame leaving the EU for everything, ignoring the timing of covid/other external factors and the fact many EU countries are having some similar financial difficulties at the moment. We outperformed many main EU countries some quarters too.

Not sure who the "many" are here? The "blame leaving the EU for everything" trope is not worth the debate. No one in the right mind would do this - the issue is that all the troubled sectors e.g. farming, fisheries, trade imports/exports, R&D, Finance, etc. will have a Brexit contribution. Some small and some considerable.

It is wishful thinking that we are just like the other EU countries in our economic performance post-Covid, we're not.

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is quite depressing that people are content in celebrating the removal of insignia with the price paid for the removal of such trivia being the structural impoverishment of the nation and the visceral division of our society.

How?

Insignia symbolise things. Removing them symbolises the deeper change permitting their removal. The removal of the EU name and/or flag from our driving licences, our infrastructure projects and whatever else, is a visible reminder of where the buck now always stops. Harmonised EU rules now need no longer be an excuse for government inaction. And that’s good for our democracy because we can debate these things and hold our representatives to account in elections that can actually result in an entire change of government rather than the massive deckchair shuffling process that occurs in Strasbourg.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Harmonised EU rules now need no longer be an excuse for government inaction.

Now we just have that they’re crap.

Originally Posted by jfman

Now we just have that they’re crap.

Quite possibly. And while it’s all but impossible to effect co-ordinated, meaningful change in the EU legislature across the entire bloc, it is most definitely possible to do it within the UK. Accountability now rests where it ought to.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Quite possibly. And while it’s all but impossible to effect co-ordinated, meaningful change in the EU legislature across the entire bloc, it is most definitely possible to do it within the UK. Accountability now rests where it ought to.

Given their impotence in applying the powers they do have I look forward to the exhaustive list of planned improvements that couldn’t happen in the EU.

You have to admire (not really) Rees-Mogg’s brass neck in claiming £1 billion in savings/avoided costs by suspending something we only introduced because we left the EU…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-saved-almost/

The trade border is one example of how government efficiency eases inflation. In the spring, thanks to the support of the Prime Minister and Liz Truss, the government suspended the expensive physical checks on incoming goods from the European Union to address the rising cost of food. As well as saving officials at the border time and resources, this measure has also saved businesses in the wider economy at least £1 billion in avoided costs, preventing shortages of goods and delays in already strained supply chains.

[1andrew1]

Johnson's terrible Brexit deal that penalised UK manufacturing continues to unravel. As a trade expert reveals, if Johnson had wanted to, he could have sorted this issue out over a couple of beers in Brussels.

British steelmakers forced to pay 25% tariff on N Ireland sales

EU quotas for global imports have been exhausted earlier than expected

British steel producers will have to pay a 25 per cent tariff to sell certain construction products into Northern Ireland after EU quotas for global imports were exhausted earlier than expected.

Steel producers and stockholders were informed of the new tariff on Wednesday in a notice from HM Revenue & Customs, prompting a fierce backlash from industry.

“It is beyond farcical that UK producers are now prevented by these tariffs from selling goods to customers in their own country,” said Gareth Stace, director-general of UK Steel, the industry trade association.

“To add insult to injury EU steel producers can continue to export these goods tariff free throughout the UK, but we can no longer do so in the opposite direction,” he added.

“Countries like Turkey are using up big chunks of the quota and there is none left for anyone else,” said Richard Warren, UK Steel head of policy.

Sam Lowe, a trade expert at consultancy Flint Global, wrote that the soured political relationship between London and Brussels over the Northern Ireland protocol had exacerbated the commission’s refusal to make exceptions for the UK.

“This is something that could be resolved fairly easily if the EU-UK relationship was in a better place. But it’s not,” he wrote in his Most Favoured Nation blog on trade affairs earlier this month.

https://www.ft.com/content/fcddb854-...5-4dc905abc64e

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Johnson's terrible Brexit deal that penalised UK manufacturing continues to unravel. As a trade expert reveals, if Johnson had wanted to, he could have sorted this issue out over a couple of beers in Brussels.

It's not unravelling, we were told manufacturing and farming would be sacrificed, that they are is hardly a shock to anyone paying attention